STR were did i go wrong?

[fireflybad]

STR: This is a very troublesome stat. When you put points into this via the points you get when you level, that one point equal one more point of damage to the mob you hit, and every 5 give you a bonus of one more. So five points into STR=6 more points of damage, 20 into STR= 24 more points of damage. However +STR on a weapon is not the same…NO WERE CLOSE!!!! +STR when on a weapon is like +damage on a skill, this damage has to go though armor thus its a lot less then one would expect, its not a 1:1 ratio.

This is going to make a lot of people mad but ill give you some numbers:
Note this is no were near perfect but this is how I did it: I am level 50 cleric, I went out and hit Harkans 40 times… (low amount but adding up tons of number is not what I wanted to do) but here are the results
No stat change not buffed: average hit 173 damage. (Control)
Took off a +13 END ring and put on a +12 STR ring average hit 174 damage.
Put END ring back on and used lvl 2 base: adds 111-130 damage: average hit: 194
Bash lvl 4: adds 279-328: average hit 240

First thing to notice is that +12 STR added one more point of damage. Two things you can take from this either (1) +12 makes no difference when added to the Harkan’s natural Def. or (2) I need to count more hits. None the less the difference will be minimal. Oh and if you didn’t know +12 STR on a weapon or ring is the same as adding +12 to attack damage.

+12 STR adds 12 damage raised the real output damage by 1
Bash(2) adds 111-130 damage raised the real output damage by 20.
Bash(4) adds 279-328 damage raised the real output damage by 66.

My conclusion: if you want to add damage though STR to have substantial effect you have to have it on all your Armor: boot, shirt, hat, pants, weapon and rings. Just having 20 to 40 STR throughout your armor has little effect.

To take my conclusion even farther: if you have 30 STR on your boots, shirt, pants, hat and weapon would equal +150 STR would add around 22-25 real damage output.

This Doesn’t sound right to me can anyone see any thing wrong with what I have done?
If you need anymore info just ask.

Oh there might be a correlation between Char STR and +STR on Armor, but I cant think of a way to test that.

[whitecrowe]

I can't point you where to look, but from multiple tests and such it's beleived that stats from free points work differently on armor.
Free:
Str=1.2 damage
End=5 hp, .5 defense, and .2(?) block rate
Dex=.3 aim, .2 evasion
Int=1.2 magic damage
Spr=5 sp, .5 magic defense, .2/.1 crit%

Armor:
str=.2 damage
End=1 defense, 5 hp
Dex= can't remember
Int=.2 magic damage
Spr= 1 magic defense, 5 sp
(might be a bit inaccurate, from memory)

So yeah, people paying a lot of money for str/int armor seem to be wasting it. At the same time people in the loop realize how end can be a waste of free points for archers/mages and know that end armor is worth a lot.

[Allnighte]

i also agree that STR from free stat points doesn't go through armor.

i was playing around with an archer the same level as me (i think we were both lvl 70 at the time, or 69), and with a build almost identical. the difference between us was that he had 5 more points in DEX than I, and I had 5 more points in STR.

we were both completely naked punching eachother. so all of our numbers were identical EXCEPT the 5 points of STR free stat I had more than him.

So if I had 5 more free stat STR, I should punch for 5 more damage than him, right?
wrong. I only did 1 more damage per hit (he was hitting me for like 20 hp, i was hitting him for like 21).

try it out yourselves. have a friend and you make a character in the same class, get to level 5, and have one of you put 5 points of STR and the other one not. then get completely naked and punch. i think you'll see that you won't punch for 5 more damage.

[Atmor]

i also agree that STR from free stat points doesn't go through armor.

i was playing around with an archer the same level as me (i think we were both lvl 70 at the time, or 69), and with a build almost identical. the difference between us was that he had 5 more points in DEX than I, and I had 5 more points in STR.

we were both completely naked punching eachother. so all of our numbers were identical EXCEPT the 5 points of STR free stat I had more than him.

So if I had 5 more free stat STR, I should punch for 5 more damage than him, right?
wrong. I only did 1 more damage per hit (he was hitting me for like 20 hp, i was hitting him for like 21).

try it out yourselves. have a friend and you make a character in the same class, get to level 5, and have one of you put 5 points of STR and the other one not. then get completely naked and punch. i think you'll see that you won't punch for 5 more damage.

Hmmm...I am planning a complete reset of my stat points to do an experiment after I get paid next. I am currently pure str, and am thinking of going end or dex, and I will post my results as to the damage difference if I remember.

[fireflybad]

Hmmm...I am planning a complete reset of my stat points to do an experiment after I get paid next. I am currently pure str, and am thinking of going end or dex, and I will post my results as to the damage difference if I remember.

i would love to hear what you notice differant when you make a post send me a PM and i would love to read over it

[BlaBlub]

there are alot of assumptions in your post i can not find proof for.

im my experience the damage reduction is not linear, but more like this:

Dmg= MinDmg + Random(MaxDmg-MinDmg);
DmgAfterDefence= Dmg*(Dmg/Def);

That would explain the extreme dmg explosion on weaker enemies and the dmg reduction.

But if my assumption is true, then DmgAfterDefence raises faster the more Dmg u have.

[Horinia]

I myself have been working on this issues for nearly a month now.

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58891

Since the str stats off of armor effect damage slightly differently then the ones from free stats it makee it a bit more difficult to narrow down specifically how it works.

As it states in my post, the equation to determine damage is an exponential decreasing one. With the exponant being a negative coefficiant multiplied by x, where x is a function of defense.

Think of it as damage = 1/x , but not as simple as that sad to say.

I have spent weeks gathering parses of data. Parses are terms I picked up while playing MMO's for years. Basically to parse defensive effects, you go get hit thousands of times, recording the data. Make modications to your defense, get hit more times, and track changes.

My samples number in the neighborhood of 10,000 now, give or take a few hundred. I've been able to determine a soft cap for defense, but not the specific algorythm for the calculation. One I figure that out, determining effects of strength or endurace off of free stats should be the easy part.

[Panma]

I'm waiting for an explanation of base stats (the stats you get every level regardless).
Namely Spr.

I want to know how much Crit % you get per point of base stat.
Is there even an increase of Crit % per base stat point?

What about End, does it increase block rate?

Is any of THIS information out there?

So if I had 5 more free stat STR, I should punch for 5 more damage than him, right?
wrong. I only did 1 more damage per hit (he was hitting me for like 20 hp, i was hitting him for like 21).

try it out yourselves. have a friend and you make a character in the same class, get to level 5, and have one of you put 5 points of STR and the other one not. then get completely naked and punch. i think you'll see that you won't punch for 5 more damage.
And I'm very interested in these findings. Have you actually done this? (made a new char, 5 str points, etc..?)

If this is true, then free stats in Str are misleading.

[Atmor]

I'm waiting for an explanation of base stats (the stats you get every level regardless).
Namely Spr.

I want to know how much Crit % you get per point of base stat.
Is there even an increase of Crit % per base stat point?

What about End, does it increase block rate?

Is any of THIS information out there?

This info is out there in MANY places but for the sake of saving you SOME searching, I know that SPR from free stat points adds 0.2% to you crit per point for the first 25 points. After you have 25 points in SPR you will only receive 0.1% to your crit rate for each additional point.

I don't remember the exact increase in teh block rate added by END, but I am pretty sure it is a solid 0.1% increase per END free stat point, but don't quote me on that.

[Panma]

I uhm, wasn't talking about Free Stats. Read my post, really read it.

I'm talking about BASE STATS, the stats you get as soon as you level up. You know, in your system window it says Gained 2 Dexterity, or whatever.

I know all the free stat information. I want to know the Base Stat information.

[Horinia]

For base stats, I havent quite finished all the research I need , but I do have some solid preliminary findings.

Str, this modifies your damage range. The damage range is the attack you see in your character window. Even though it may say 900~1200 or something , you notice you never hit that hard. Thats becasue its the part of the calculation:

damage dealt= ((damage range)*(range modifer))*(z^-x)

Thats why when you put on a piece of gear with say 20 str , you dont see a 20 damage increase. It is modified through an expontial equation.

Spr, this base stat does not increase crit. Its most usefull in the area of mdef and sp points. I havent played with it too much, but I will try to get you the exact amount base spr increases mdef for each point soon. Thats on the back burner.

Dex, this increases aim and evasion. But does not funtion lthe same as free dex. Free dex stat points increase the % of a chance of evading an attack. Base points increase your eva score. When an attack is done there are 2 calculations performed before the damage. The second only effects shield wearers. But the first will check the attackers aim to the defenders eva score, to determine if the attack lands. If it does damage is calculated, if it doesnt a miss shows on screen. Then the next calc is done for block, but again thats only applicable to shield wearers. Many people confuse eva score with eva%. Raising eva% is much more effective then raising eva score.

End, well theres a whole lot thats been looked into on this, so most know by now. Base increase hp and a minor increase in def score only. Base do not effect block.

Int, same as str really , but for magaic damage. I believe the damage is determined the same , but I am not a mage and dont really use magic attacks so I cant say with 100% assurity.

This again is prelimnary, but I am not just pulling these out of the air. Its not easy to back build in game functions exactly, it takes time and effort. But math doesnt lie, and so far it all seems true. If I find anything to contradict it I'll be the first to post.

[Atmor]

I uhm, wasn't talking about Free Stats. Read my post, really read it.

I'm talking about BASE STATS, the stats you get as soon as you level up. You know, in your system window it says Gained 2 Dexterity, or whatever.

I know all the free stat information. I want to know the Base Stat information.

Alright, alright calm down, I simply mis-read it. I have gotten so used to people calling the same thing different things that my mind translates it directly into what I thought you said. Then in answer to your question, I doubt the points you gain in end or spr affect your block/crit at all, but then again there is no conclusive proof to my knowledge.

[smitske]

the free stats points do the gear points dont.

[Allnighte]

bizump, needs more awesome math

[RikoRain]

STR: This is a very troublesome stat. When you put points into this via the points you get when you level, that one point equal one more point of damage to the mob you hit, and every 5 give you a bonus of one more. So five points into STR=6 more points of damage, 20 into STR= 24 more points of damage. However +STR on a weapon is not the same…NO WERE CLOSE!!!! +STR when on a weapon is like +damage on a skill, this damage has to go though armor thus its a lot less then one would expect, its not a 1:1 ratio.

This is going to make a lot of people mad but ill give you some numbers:
Note this is no were near perfect but this is how I did it: I am level 50 cleric, I went out and hit Harkans 40 times… (low amount but adding up tons of number is not what I wanted to do) but here are the results
No stat change not buffed: average hit 173 damage. (Control)
Took off a +13 END ring and put on a +12 STR ring average hit 174 damage.
Put END ring back on and used lvl 2 base: adds 111-130 damage: average hit: 194
Bash lvl 4: adds 279-328: average hit 240

First thing to notice is that +12 STR added one more point of damage. Two things you can take from this either (1) +12 makes no difference when added to the Harkan’s natural Def. or (2) I need to count more hits. None the less the difference will be minimal. Oh and if you didn’t know +12 STR on a weapon or ring is the same as adding +12 to attack damage.

+12 STR adds 12 damage raised the real output damage by 1
Bash(2) adds 111-130 damage raised the real output damage by 20.
Bash(4) adds 279-328 damage raised the real output damage by 66.

My conclusion: if you want to add damage though STR to have substantial effect you have to have it on all your Armor: boot, shirt, hat, pants, weapon and rings. Just having 20 to 40 STR throughout your armor has little effect.

To take my conclusion even farther: if you have 30 STR on your boots, shirt, pants, hat and weapon would equal +150 STR would add around 22-25 real damage output.

This Doesn’t sound right to me can anyone see any thing wrong with what I have done?
If you need anymore info just ask.

Oh there might be a correlation between Char STR and +STR on Armor, but I cant think of a way to test that.

Eehhhh I thinkt he whole thing is just.. wrong. One point of STR wont help much at all, especially if the fiends defense outweighs it. (For really high lvl mobs or osmeting, I bet the att damage wouldnt change at all because the def of the monster is so high).

But its not.. it doesnt make sense. STR adds one pt of att, yet when you add a "power" scroll, that increases damage, therefore you would think STR, it increases AIM.



I wont even start on the fact that if you put a "tier2" or "tier3" scroll on, it still lists it as "tier1" and sometimes it wont add the proper amount.

[Atmor]

Eehhhh I thinkt he whole thing is just.. wrong. One point of STR wont help much at all, especially if the fiends defense outweighs it. (For really high lvl mobs or osmeting, I bet the att damage wouldnt change at all because the def of the monster is so high).

But its not.. it doesnt make sense. STR adds one pt of att, yet when you add a "power" scroll, that increases damage, therefore you would think STR, it increases AIM.



I wont even start on the fact that if you put a "tier2" or "tier3" scroll on, it still lists it as "tier1" and sometimes it wont add the proper amount.

Alright first of all, free stat points you gain from lvling, when put into str, will add 1 damage on top of what you would normally deal, NO MATTER WHAT, assuming you don't miss. Power scrolls have ALWAYS been mislabeled, and they ONLY add aim, not damage in anyway, and I really wish they would properly label them, just like the need to fix that the Def learning scrolls all say M def. As for the bug where if you hover over the scroll that is in use, it will now say the actual tier it is, they fixed this over a month ago.

[Allnighte]

Alright first of all, free stat points you gain from lvling, when put into str, will add 1 damage on top of what you would normally deal, NO MATTER WHAT, assuming you don't miss.
this is what we are debating. do you have any proof of this? or just repeating what we all seem to have heard?

[Atmor]

this is what we are debating. do you have any proof of this? or just repeating what we all seem to have heard?

The only proof I have is my experiance and that isn't exactly tangible now is it? If you want concrete proof so badly I can see about giving you some in about a week...

[iriaandbob]

I certainly havent researched as thoroughly as you guys have but there is one thing for sure:

The stated damage (DMG) in the character screen for your auto attack and the tool tips for Bash simply isnt correct.

My DMG clearly states a minimum of 400 damage, however if I hit something lower than me like a BAT that gives 1 xp, it still doesnt even do the minimum damage. So, I dont know how free stat points versus point on weapons calculate but the bottom line is the information in the character screen simply isnt representative of the truth even when fighting somehting many level lower than you. I think that is the true issue we need to bring up with the Devs. Im not saying to buff clerics, but at least make the character info screen be representative of what youll see in battle. That way we can make informed decisions about where to put points.

[Atmor]

I certainly havent researched as thoroughly as you guys have but there is one thing for sure:

The stated damage (DMG) in the character screen for your auto attack and the tool tips for Bash simply isnt correct.

My DMG clearly states a minimum of 400 damage, however if I hit something lower than me like a BAT that gives 1 xp, it still doesnt even do the minimum damage. So, I dont know how free stat points versus point on weapons calculate but the bottom line is the information in the character screen simply isnt representative of the truth even when fighting somehting many level lower than you. I think that is the true issue we need to bring up with the Devs. Im not saying to buff clerics, but at least make the character info screen be representative of what youll see in battle. That way we can make informed decisions about where to put points.

I BELIEVE the damage indicated in the damage screen is before def/m.def, but if a mob were to have like 0 def/m.def your attack should do no less than 400 in this instance. As always don't quote me on this because I really don't know.

[Allnighte]

okay, i just did a little test.
got 2 fighters to lvl 5. went to FBZ1. (took us a while because stupid lvl 30-50 idiots were killing us. picking on lvl 5 chars? come on!)

here are the numbers for a lvl5 fighter, no stat points:
dmg: 24-27
def: 14
eva: 10
aim: 15

so i did 10-11 dmg per hit on the other lvl 5 fighter. (probably 10.33 average, since 10 came up more often)
added a point into STR, damage was now 11-12 (probably 11.33 average)
added another point STR, dmg was now 12-13 (" 12.33 ")
this is consistent with the belief that free stat STR bypasses defense

then i had the other person put on a def[1] scroll and a pet. their def became 44
now with those 2 points in STR, i was doing 3 dmg each hit.
added a point into STR, damage became 4
added another point STR, damage became 5
added another point STR, damage became 7

so it appears free stat STR does bypass defense. another interesting thing we noticed is that punching damage (in the C screen) seems to be exactly 10% of your STR. this would explain why when i punched another lvl 70 archer with 5 extra STR points, i only did 1 more damage instead of 6.

also, even though you can think of free stat STR as being "1.2 STR", it's more just: "1 STR point, +1 extra for every 5"

these figures might not be solid if the dmg/def calculations are a little "raw" for lower levels. so unless someone wants to reset like 80 points and test it out at level 60, there's still a possibility things could be off.

[Aestba]

Armor:
str=.2 damage
End=1 defense, 5 hp
Dex= can't remember
Int=.2 magic damage
Spr= 1 magic defense, 5 sp
(might be a bit inaccurate, from memory)

Does anyone know what the effects of Dex on equipments?

[Laifun]

i have about 50 points in STR and my friend cleric has none.

we hit the same monster with our fists and wearing no armor any equipment with + stats.

i dealt approx. ~60 damage more than her.

im guessing free stat does work like that.

[IcyPhoenix]

Free stat points of str goes through armour totally ignores UNLESS the opponent has END as their free stat point, then whatever the value of their free stat point end - lets say 50 end, then half of the end minus your damage is equaled to the damage you deal out ie/ 50str vs 50end = 25dmg

ps. i read this off another post not sure of its accuracy

btw - isn't bash a mdmg skill =/