Too many fighters

[Zeratul]

Why are there so many fighters running around.* 2/3 of the
characters I see are fighters.* I went into slime kingdom instance
and we had 8 DPS fighters who refused to taunt since they werent tanks
and did awful DPS completely wasting space.* Please stop.* If
you want to do damage roll mage or archer they are made for it.

[Alastor1996]

I keep hearing bad things about fighter from you, dude seriously not every fighter is like that. Why dont you just tell them to get taunt?

[killer222]

* yea hes right y are you so worried about fighters for anyway.

[Sick_559]

we need more clerics

[nellshini]

It's funny, cause in my last few runs of Gold Hill Adventure we had no fighters and Cleric tanks 2/3 of the time. I guess most of the newbies are rolling as Fighters.

[thesjaakie]

He didn't really say something bad about fighters, just about the players.



But that was the reason why I started my fighter, since there were no adequate tanks around, or barely.



But yea, any fighter can have the cheap first taunt just in case he's the only fighter, or best capable tank, in the KQ.

But most people don't really like to be a tank since they think they go slowly. And yea, they don't deal that much damage. But without them KQs are a lot tougher.

[bledcyan]

well, it will sort itself out in time.


*It is way too expensive to tank, and only those really willing to devote the effort to it will stick with it as the levels progress.


*I took my war to 23 before I got sick of spending **** loads of money to ensure I Could survive and be my best when slackers would just sit back and do w/e without anyone complaining about them.. cause they were DPS.


 


If your a cleric or MT, you cannot slack; if you do you screw everyone or will get told off.* And this game makes it so expensive to perform adequately as a MT that I am unlikely to play fighter again (or at least not as a main).


_________________prev tank*experiance____________


60 war MT in WoW, early BWL/MC guild (b4 expansion)


65 war, 70 nin, 70 bard FFXI


Brief forray into EQ..


*Various muds over the last 13 years...


played tanks in tabletop games for years.. (D&D and the like)


_____________________////////////_________________


as for the damage they do, it really isn't bad.* You may not have the extra from moded str if you go full end (which btw you can go 1:1 str/end and be fine it seems; either way your going to need vit scrols) but you still have a weapon the same speed as an archers bow with around the same damage range.* And 1h weapon skills push out some pretty nice damage.


*My tank (2 end/2 spr/.5 dex stat spread) deals out some pretty solid damage; though it doesn't feel like it sometimes.* If I analyze it it's actually not bad at all, just doesn't have that "DPS" feel to it because your tanking.*


You'd prob get more out of a 2H on heavilly armored things.


 


And speaking of such; quit whining about some warriors being geared for DPS.* It is a good cost effective fighter alternative.* You don't believe it's any good because you assume based upon other games and their mechanics.* Under those assumptions I would agree with you, but try leveling a warrior up to mid twenties and compare it to your DPS characters.. you might be surprised if you actually look @ the #s.

[Zeratul]

Okay first off I have nothing at all against fighters. What Id
like to see is more fighters being tanks and doing their job
well. What I usually see if fighters who are tanks and cant use
taunt. What I see a whole lot of is fighters that are trying to
do DPS and failing.


Heres the thing bledcyan. If DPS
warrior created viable damage in comparison to archer and mage Id have
no problem with it. Yes they are more durable than either of
those classes (even full str build) but they arent tanking so how is
that durability helping at all?


I am rapidly approaching
level 20 with my mage and I have friends who are archers and full str
fighters and have talked to them about damage and such and the fact is
even full str a warrior does less than half the DPS of an archer and
archer do a tad less damage than mages but arent as screwed when mana
runs out.


Why do they do less damage? Warrior gets an
okay damage move and a few low damage + debuffs. Archer and mage
get several high end damage moves they can spam back to back. As
mage I have 4 count em 4 high damage instant cast spells. The
fire spell does significantly more damage than any other skill in the
game before you push 5 points of improved damage into it making it just
insane.


Let me tell you when you run the king slime with
that many DPS warriors you can clearly tell how much less damage is
being outputted. The run took forever and we just didnt have
enough DPS to complete it. Fighters dont have damage dealing
moves its just not possible.

[Resandben]

If you're having problems with useless tanks refer them here http://outspark.com/node/3536


As for whoever said tanking is expensive, it's not if there's a decent cleric around. On a side note i'm 1h and there's nothing wrong with my dps, but in parties its best to focus on agro control.


In the lvl 50-59 dungeon i hardly attack the boss because all i do is taunt and mock it b4 it stuns me again to keep the aggro away from the damage dealers.

[Zeratul]

Well the bigger problem is they are not tanking on purpose. They
are actually trying to do DPS as fighter and its just not built that
way. If they alter Fiesta in the future to allow different builds
fine but cmon fighters have like 1 damage move and normal blows
certainly dont match up to special attacks.

[bledcyan]

king slime+dps warrior does not a dps warrior make


*I wasn't saying that you were attacking warriors, but I felt the need to point some things out for general readers.


*I still think you'd be surprised at the damage output overall.


The only real problem is bosses AoEs combined with lack of skill*make them worthless a lot of times.

[NateRiver]

Not all fighters suck.


And there are waaaay to many mages and archers.


 


Actually, there's waaaay to many of everything.


 


 

[Keenan]

i am 100% END i only had one person talk*about my*tanking skills.*


and next time i see him i will prove to him how good of a tank i am ill die for my party in-game dieing not real dieing-.-


like if i new all the monters would kill me in like **** i would still mock them to me just to let my team live.


and if i just happen to do a bad job tanking its cause am lagging or the phone or sumthin happend in real life.

[chibuzao121]

im wondering can warriors duel wield im new i havent download it yet

[Diagemi]

_________________prev tank experiance____________


65 war, 70 nin, 70 bard FFXI


This made me cry.

[Jophiel]

Let me say this. I play a full end tank...I see many other fighters never taunt and rely on their opening hit to hold aggression. Now I DO taunt one thing and let loose on another...the problem however is Taunt does have a cool down and pre-20 far too many mages and archers think the tank can constantly taunt 10 things. I constantly have to taunt and stun things just to keep things from getting out of hand. I taunt mob A and attack mob B then see a mage cast on mob C. So as soon as I can I taunt C but then someone hits D and my taunt is still cooling so I have to stun D. I can keep things under control IF my healer heals me. The problem is in that. I've been in several parties where I was the main tank and the healer instead of healing me runs off and attacks something further ahead and when my health finally hits 1/5 I get no heal so I have to stone or pot. Add that to my mana pots from the constant need for chain taunts and stuns. So sometimes I just say "F it" and hope someone foolish dies.

Now, I do believe every fighter should have the single mob taunt for scenarios as follows. King Slime KQ... King Slime spawns his minions and normally those stick to me for a bit but eventually scatter towards the healers. a DPS should taunt and kill as well as a few mages and archers redirecting fire (should be done ASAP). This makes things much easier in the end not everyone is running around and the healers can keep a steady heal on the tank keeping me from wasting more stones and pots.

In essence a fighter CAN DPS but they should be using power scrolls to keep it consistant with out missing as much.

You know what...nevermind I forgot what I was even talking about...

[Semaj]

im gonna throw my 2cents in there since im a LV25 cleric/tank. Its not the class itself, but the people playing the characters. I was partying in Luminous Stone the other day with a new party (people i had never partied with before), and we knew what we had to get for quests, the problem was that both of the fighters in the party would run in totally opposite directions (and out of my healing range), and i would be left with the archer and mage. I would get chewed out for not healing and keeping them alive. throw in the both mage's and archers who would agro while i was resting (as i was tanking and healing and not willing to use all my sp pots for a party who couldnt act as a team), and i would let them die. maby i was a jerk for letting them die, and i would res them.
ive partied with fighters that are good at their job, both as a tank and damage dealer. i guess its not so much the build as actually playing how your char is supposed to be played. and dont just rely on clerics to heal, we're not just heal slaves you know...we're gonna get in and get bloody unless we're just way to buisy keeping everyone alive (remember our heals and res have cool downs too you know). wow. i think i lost track of what i was trying to say lol.

[iLoveless]

Let me say this. I play a full end tank...I see many other fighters never taunt and rely on their opening hit to hold aggression. Now I DO taunt one thing and let loose on another...the problem however is Taunt does have a cool down and pre-20 far too many mages and archers think the tank can constantly taunt 10 things. I constantly have to taunt and stun things just to keep things from getting out of hand. I taunt mob A and attack mob B then see a mage cast on mob C. So as soon as I can I taunt C but then someone hits D and my taunt is still cooling so I have to stun D. I can keep things under control IF my healer heals me. The problem is in that. I've been in several parties where I was the main tank and the healer instead of healing me runs off and attacks something further ahead and when my health finally hits 1/5 I get no heal so I have to stone or pot. Add that to my mana pots from the constant need for chain taunts and stuns. So sometimes I just say "F it" and hope someone foolish dies.

Now, I do believe every fighter should have the single mob taunt for scenarios as follows. King Slime KQ... King Slime spawns his minions and normally those stick to me for a bit but eventually scatter towards the healers. a DPS should taunt and kill as well as a few mages and archers redirecting fire (should be done ASAP). This makes things much easier in the end not everyone is running around and the healers can keep a steady heal on the tank keeping me from wasting more stones and pots.

In essence a fighter CAN DPS but they should be using power scrolls to keep it consistant with out missing as much.

You know what...nevermind I forgot what I was even talking about...
I have to agree with you on this. I'm a full END fighter myself and it's so hard to keep all the monster's aggro on myself. The other time in KQ all the monster's were on me but eventually did go towards the clerics but all the dps were just concentrating on the boss which eventually I got killed caused I had no heal and my pots/stones were on cooldown.

[whitelion318]

y do u care they r realy gd to get in to the game because they are much easyer to train than the other proffesions cus i have a mage n it took me 2 weeks to get 2 lvl23 ans i hav a fighter i got to lvl 17 in 3 hours ..

[Asheer]

For me personally idea of full end char in only one statistic is hardly to understand.
From my experience whit rpg system for example figther should develop 3 stat:
STR - Damage deal.
DEX - evasion.
END(or constitution in other wersions) - damage resist.

Currently i started a new char [whit new production skills(pots and scrolls), what was weak point on my main char] using this 3 stat.
Whit STR +2, DEX+2 and END +1 i could fight whit mushroom fighter without being stun(what on my main char was a norm when i face a MF :D)even hero slime was no big adversary.

Thats why such discusion from my point of view is pointless because all players have diferent view how to build a char.
I belive that implementation to Fiesta for example D&D system creation of character will put to end all class issues discusion (for example if cleric should be tanks and be able to fight alone.)
In D&D system is possibile combine a diferent class, for example Fighter + Cleric + mage (or archer what is beter option because i can do ranged attack and when is necesary switch to sword and fight in close combat), and what i especially miss here is two weapon figthing.

And one more thing..., for me is strange that fighter special attack require SP but at least SP are not so necesary as for Mage or Archer and i find that even without adding a xp points for increase SP i have inoff SP to taunt more than 5/6 mob in row before my HP run down to low lvl or use max 2, 3 SP stones on hardest maps (L.S, B.H).

Asheer fighter lvl 25 TEVA - server
(second lvl 5 fighter on TEVA right now is hide in shadow and dont want to be exposed;))

Aasheer fighter lvl 5 APOLINE - server (starting in time when TEVA was offline..., what i hope will never repeat:mad:)
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[Lebatt]

Well here's my thought.

I want fighters DPS..

BUT

I am a full end tank myself. I have +53 (or more cant remember) end right now (lvl 49). I enjoy tanking as i can solo very well. I just strap on a good old axe and i do good damage and keep up with everyone.

But also how is tanking expensive? what you pay for a shield? lol

Well myself i solo alot and tank when needed. Just because they want to be damage dealers they can be. Keep in mind they dont have the HP to tank then. They dont have the defence that full END fighters do.

BUT they should be atleast taking agro from clerics and mages so they can be healed. Then if they die, the clerics aernt doing their jobs.

[Lebatt]

y do u care they r realy gd to get in to the game because they are much easyer to train than the other proffesions cus i have a mage n it took me 2 weeks to get 2 lvl23 ans i hav a fighter i got to lvl 17 in 3 hours ..

WHat? mage 2 weeks to 23 wow? I made it to 14 with a mage noob char and no gear just the wand and 2 spells in around 3 hours. So it really shoudlnt take long unless u dont know what ur doing. no offence. and no i didnt join any KQ. It was my farming mage. I collected sbl and meat :P lol but hey.. worked quite well and yeah only 3-4 hours max for lvl 14.

[platina]

WHat? mage 2 weeks to 23 wow? I made it to 14 with a mage noob char and no gear just the wand and 2 spells in around 3 hours. So it really shoudlnt take long unless u dont know what ur doing. no offence. and no i didnt join any KQ. It was my farming mage. I collected sbl and meat :P lol but hey.. worked quite well and yeah only 3-4 hours max for lvl 14.

well first chars will take lot more time than second chars, my first char full end took time, now the others chars, with all the funds, will get always scrolls, buff, accessories, prolly even enhanced weapon... so lets no compare our first chars, with the seconds or thirds we created.


****
Regarding the topic, inst the char, is the player, everybody gotta know what they doing, as someone said, why would it be the fighter fault to avoid a monster agroing a DD,when the DD hit a monster that wasn't taunt?

I don't have problems with DD fighters, in fact most of my party are with them, but as a tank, and knowing my cleric capabilities, am the one deciding what and how many to pull. (this when aoe killing)

Single pulls i leave the rangers to pull, till i taunt.

At the end nothing like partying with ppl u know what is doing.

PArty of 3 fighters, 1 archer, 1 cleric....low DDs? so what?...cleric wont even need to heal, since everything will be stun all time.

almost for every new party u gotta adapt urself.

[Lebatt]

well first chars will take lot more time than second chars, my first char full end took time, now the others chars, with all the funds, will get always scrolls, buff, accessories, prolly even enhanced weapon... so lets no compare our first chars, with the seconds or thirds we created.
.

Well i spent 250c only. or less.

All i did was have my wand. And i bought fireball spell.
That was all.
I did not fund it anyway.
I did not use anyspecial wand.
I'm not bragging or trying to take credit lol i'm only saying its not that difficult.
I never had pots to use.

I found a ring of INT _3 or w/e but that's all i had for extra equip. no boots, no shirt, no pants, nothing else but wand.

[Vincent95]

well, a fighter with full str isn't a fighter who can't tank
a fighter with full end isn't a fighter who cant produce decent DPS
all those points u add on to ur stat r just points to help u boost a certain stat
everytime u lvled up u get extra points for all stats, it's just that u'll get more advantage from the stat u added that's all...it's not like most common MMORPG where if u didn't add any stats it'll remain that way

every fighter can tank regardless of builds if they're not so stingy about their pots...

[Lebatt]

A second note people dont realize is the equipment

I once at lvl 30 had statted gear. ALL o my gear was statted green so i had a total of +177 to stats (distributed).

Now it's much less but i have a good amount still the same.
So if their gear gives them a ton of END it will help.. No they dont get the free stat bonus but it sure helps.

[mivin65]

You need to be at a certain lvl to get taunt. I noticed alot of players don't even activate their skills or buy new ones.. Apparently they don't know how. I educate as many newbies as possible. More people should do the same.

[obilerator]

Most new players don't know about the second page in some, if not all of the skill sellers under active skills. Mock happens to be in the second page and many new players think it's some skill you get at a certain level automatically, so, they tend to not buy it.

[Crossglaive]

Fu ck the what is a "DPS" fighter, fighters can't do DPS. They can do damage, but not DPS.

[TITLE]

Fu ck the what is a "DPS" fighter, fighters can't do DPS. They can do damage, but not DPS.

>.> wat u want it to be call then DoT?

Heavy DPS comes off a fighter with proper build.
Like myself, im building a pure DD/DPS build, basically full STR with cd on PH atm and working on Vitality(which i think OS should change the name of this skill its confusing, y would u lose def if its call vitality common >.>).