Mob train in abyss?

[rbd1313]

Me and my arch were there duoing went into one of the big rooms in the abyss 60-69 teva server when a mage and cleric said their fighter would be back didn't ask us to leave join them nothing and then the Mage mob trained and killed us.. I know its pvp and they can fight us if they want but can you claim the room as your being only 3 in it and can you mob train ? Well after respawn we attacked back until fighter got back and we we're out numbered they killed my archer again and then spawn killed her while I was busying fighting their fighter and cleric. So whats the rules on abyss for claiming a spot and mob training and anyone want to come help us kill them back most of friends list is offline right now lol be great if GM can peek in on this also


THX

[Farashimisanoob]

Mind speaking english a little bit better?

Also, it's PvP you can kill anyone in there as they can kill you, enter at your own risk.
No rules in Abyss :3, excluding the ToS rules.

[rbd1313]

srry for my typing ty for pointing that out Farashimisanoob trying to type fast. However its about the spot claiming and mob trains not just them attacking. Bad english or not read it a bit closer

TY

[Farashimisanoob]

Well as I recall they don't have any rules in the Abyss. Kill or get Killed.

[Serric]

What you can do is sent a PM to a GM for clarificaiton.

On one hand, training and spot claiming are, indeed, game violations. PvP is one thing, but pulling a train?

On the other hand, anything goes in a PVP arena... it would be good if you sent a PM to GM_Dakkon, Silkypico or Snakeyes and get an official answer on this, but I can't gurantee they will respond on these forums.

[joecracker]

GM's have already made this clear anything goes in the pvp battle fields they have said this more then once

[Serric]

GM's have already made this clear anything goes in the pvp battle fields they have said this more then once

Yes, I saw that too... however, I am worried there may be too literal an interpretation of that. On the other hand, perhaps that is the accurate interpretation....

I'll find out once and for all and post here.

[Cha0sTribe]

Sorry Serric but I need to ask one thing;

If other high level party decided to kill other party so they can claim their spot, is that considered as a violation & can be reported? I'm talking about the Abyss though...

[Farashimisanoob]

The mighty Serric is stumped!

[wannabeguyo]

Sorry Serric but I need to ask one thing;

If other party decided to kill other party so they can claim their spot, is that considered as a violation & can be reported? I'm talking about the Abyss though...

no i dont believe it is, not to "claim" their spot but to take it. spot claiming is against the TOS, if they took the spot by force then that isnt a problem i believe. if they took the spot and claimed it as there then thats where the problem begins, but i do think its ok to kill a party for there spot that is why the area is pvp. I have done this many times in the big rooms, you have to fight for your xp...XD

[Serric]

Sorry Serric but I need to ask one thing;

If other high level party decided to kill other party so they can claim their spot, is that considered as a violation & can be reported? I'm talking about the Abyss though...

Well, if it is a PVP area and a group comes in and decided to wipe you out, no... that is not a vio as far as I know.

If they break the rules to do it... training, etc.... THAT is what I am trying to determine.

The mighty Serric is stumped!

Hush, you.~ :p I'd rather get the answer right than guess LOL

[rbd1313]

If they break the rules to do it... training, etc.... THAT is what I am trying to determine.

Thank you for taking the time to find the correct/offical answer not just a guess to this question Serric.. I had seen alot of talk on this but never anything up to date for abyss or an offical answer.

[hesqua]

I know its pvp and they can fight us if they want but
1. can you claim the room as your being only 3 in it and
2. can you mob train ?

I think 1. Yes, they can "claim room" by Pvping other players out of the room...

2. Probably not, but will wait for Serric's clarification :D

[KireiYosei]

I recall Silky saying no rules apply there, enter at your own risk D: While, morally, and by natural "player laws" as I like to call them, most players wouldn't consider that right, it may just be allowed, not 100% sure.

[Lordlymight]

I would think it would be really hard to prove that they were killing you off just to claim your spot. They may have killed you for the PvP kick of it and decided it was a decent spot to hang out in.

Doesn't seem wise to advertise your revenge-seeking here, but that's my opinion. Guildwarring for revenge is bannable (as I have seen in the guildwar stickie), but I guess in PvP that may not apply...

[Takerial]

The Abyss zones are player versus player zones.

This means that any means of player killing is allowed if you are within this zone. This infers that you can be attacked at any time, for any reason, by any player within the zone.

However, the difference relies in when it's no longer a pvp case.

This includes.

Spawn killing. You're not giving them a chance to leave the zone if they wish and is a form of harrassment. It is stated that if a player is attempting to leave the zone you are not allowed to kill them.

Training mobs. This is not a form of player killing because it is not your actual player killing them. Instead you are using an outside force that causes a player to lose experience. Hence why it's not acceptable.

Profanity. Crass language, insults, and everything else that would be considered harrassment is against the rules.

I'm not sure about shrooming and if the rules for that remain in effect within a pvp zone.

[KateeHellen]

From my point of view trains in all areas<PvP and non PvP>should be considered as illegal and like Takerial say if you pull in PvP area train at other players then this have nothing to do whit player versus player fight.
If we justify training in pvp zones<"because in pvp is all allowed"> then soon we will face a sytuation when some player come to pvp and pull train to others witch are already there just to "clear area" and automaticly claim this spot for himself...

[RikoRain]

So whats the rules on abyss for claiming a spot and mob training be great if GM can peek in on this also

THX

Claiming spots is against the rules..
I read it weeks ago in the forums. It was one of the sticky items. Dunno where its gone now. But someone asked about spot claiming, and the higher person (GM or CSL or CL, pretty sure it was a GM) said that spot claiming is NOT allowed. He/she said it was because if the person can GET there, they have RIGHT to be there. Therefore you cant claim a spot.

Training is also against 'em (but you have to watch out, if theyre genuinely running for their lives, they cant do much but try to avoid you) because its an attempt to expel a player from the field.

I get the above from other threads I saw posted about the same things youre asking.

Warring for revenge :/ Not nice...

[angel_sanctuary]

the whole point of having PvP in abyss area was that , when going to train in there you go in with the knowlege that you MAY be and CAN be attacked by other players and parties and that basically its an area where you can kill people to level in a spot.

thought that was the risk you basically accept taking when going into the abyss dungeons to level.

[Serric]

The Abyss zones are player versus player zones.

This means that any means of player killing is allowed if you are within this zone. This infers that you can be attacked at any time, for any reason, by any player within the zone.

However, the difference relies in when it's no longer a pvp case.

This includes.

Spawn killing. You're not giving them a chance to leave the zone if they wish and is a form of harrassment. It is stated that if a player is attempting to leave the zone you are not allowed to kill them.

Training mobs. This is not a form of player killing because it is not your actual player killing them. Instead you are using an outside force that causes a player to lose experience. Hence why it's not acceptable.

Profanity. Crass language, insults, and everything else that would be considered harrassment is against the rules.

I'm not sure about shrooming and if the rules for that remain in effect within a pvp zone.

This makes sense to me, too... PvP = Player vs Player... PvE = Player vs Environment (mobs, etc.) - It is my understanding that any person venturing into a PvP zone may be killed by another player for any reason at any time with the exception of trying to exit said zone. That does not, however, mean someone can pull a train of mobs as that makes it PvE and a violation in accordance with the rules.

However, until I hear back from one (preferably more) of the GMs I cannot say with 100% certainty. I do hope to have an answer today.

[Enoch]

Just my opinion.......(Selling, so I'm board.)

Training a mob on anyone anywhere should be considered harassment if done more than once. On the other hand, let's say you are in Abyss for pvp and are battling someone, it could be fun to add training to the mix without the fear of being reported (assuming both parties are willing).
I say leave each case for the gm's to decide without laying down another set of rules.
Soon we'll need an Isya judicial system.

Freedom is a birthright, and mischief but one of it's many manifestations.
Please leave us at least one vestige of chaos. :D

Just a thought, but as soon as everyone grasps the concepts of respect and empathy, this issue will cease to be an issue.

k, done rambling.

:eek: TRAIN!!!!:eek:
Besides the massive loss of xp, their kinda exciting!;)

[KateeHellen]

Just my opinion.......(Selling, so I'm board.)

Training a mob on anyone anywhere should be considered harassment if done more than once. On the other hand, let's say you are in Abyss for pvp and are battling someone, it could be fun to add training to the mix without the fear of being reported (assuming both parties are willing).
I say leave each case for the gm's to decide without laying down another set of rules.
Soon we'll need an Isya judicial system.

Freedom is a birthright, and mischief but one of it's many manifestations.
Please leave us at least one vestige of chaos. :D

Just a thought, but as soon as everyone grasps the concepts of respect and empathy, this issue will cease to be an issue.

k, done rambling.

:eek: TRAIN!!!!:eek:
Besides the massive loss of xp, their kinda exciting!;)

Well... i think people who will lost xp because of such trains will say otherwise and when you consider fact how very slow such lost can be compensated<especialy on high lvls> then i dont see in this fact anything exited...

[smitske]

lolz ive never had the problem, on apo we mostly run, and if wee see its taken we move on(and so do others) but there's a new garde now, so they might be less nice.

But yes training isnt allowed and neither is spot claiming, the stickys are combined in one of seeric's threads

[Takerial]

While spot claiming isn't allowed. The fact is that you can simply kill the other group and keep or take the spot from them. That's the nature of the abyss zones and you go in knowing this can happen.

Though yes, on the Apoline server I noticed that people tend to be generally nice and there's not too much conflict in them except for the pk here and there, which isn't all that bad. It's only when people take it too seriously that it becomes a major problem.

[Lordlymight]

While spot claiming isn't allowed. The fact is that you can simply kill the other group and keep or take the spot from them. That's the nature of the abyss zones and you go in knowing this can happen.

Though yes, on the Apoline server I noticed that people tend to be generally nice and there's not too much conflict in them except for the pk here and there, which isn't all that bad. It's only when people take it too seriously that it becomes a major problem.

Having no knowledge of the other servers, I will say that I have never had trouble either in the Apoline abyss zones. The very few PvPs that I have seen were mutual, 1-on-1, and for fun. I may just be lucky, but this doesn't seem like a pervasive problem, but more a case of rogue players with nothing better to do with their life.

Not that Apoline doesn't have its share of lowlifes. Got to meet one last night during a friendly guildwar.

[Enoch]

Well... i think people who will lost xp because of such trains will say otherwise and when you consider fact how very slow such lost can be compensated<especialy on high lvls> then i dont see in this fact anything exited...

o_O At level 56 i have lost more than my fair share of xp due to trains....I was being sarcastic.

[smitske]

ive lost over 100% by trains

[KateeHellen]

o_O At level 56 i have lost more than my fair share of xp due to trains....I was being sarcastic.

I known;) but you should known that way too many people here treat many issues way to serious.
I hope that OS authorites will adress this issue and put to end all discusions about trains in PvP zones.

[NLWarrior]

There is no such thing as spot claiming or room claiming but as soon as a group staying at 1 room, there is already an undergo message "This is my room" even though they don't say it out loud. But if you start to make train and causing them to get hit unwanted, you gonna be called a jerk, a noob and all sort of bad language going on. So in anyways, just don't make people mad, try to find a spot where no one is there. If you found no spot, make your train but start to kill a distance from the other person near you.

[Serric]

Non-Official Answer

[smitske]

I can tell you thats not dakkon's reply xP

[Takerial]

What bothers me is the manner of the reply. They are referring to it as if it was a case of accidental training.

I thought the purpose was to determine the case if it was someone who purposely trained people to kill them off.

[Serric]

What bothers me is the manner of the reply. They are referring to it as if it was a case of accidental training.

I thought the purpose was to determine the case if it was someone who purposely trained people to kill them off.

I have removed the post. As I said, i originally edited it and may have inadvertently misrepresented the original poster. I will refrain from posting until I have a genuine offiical reply.

[Takerial]

Alright, that was just my problem. I mean there should be a difference between an accidental train and one done on purpose for revenge or the like. Since the latter can be considered a form of harrassment. It's not a form of pvp after all.

[Balder]

And hence the problem. Although you may be able to take a screenshot of the situation, one may deny it and claim it was an "accident".

When looking at the so-called rules of PvP, there are some loops into the matter. For example, what happens if a party attacks another while they are engaging mobs? The cause of death could be done by the players or monsters and this is where it would be difficult to seek resolution of the matter.

Also, the laws concerning spot claiming are somewhat vague. Does one has to openly state that they are spot claiming to call it so or does the person keeps silent and still manage to "spot claim"? (i.e. kills the player to have the space)?

Serric, I hope in your pm to the GMs that you have asked to either clarify or re-write and fill the loopholes of the pvp areas.

[redassassin]

In my opinion:
1. They should have respected you for your spot.
2. They shouldnt have trained you like that.
3. You are a paladin LV60+ a even a group of 4 or 5 monsters cant posibly kill you.
4. Never fight back
5. Abyss= Enter at own risk
6. why not offer to work together?
7. Take a screen shot next time, specially of the strong language.(Abuse)
8. It comes to show you who is the baby now eh?

[KateeHellen]

In case of defending against trains there is good ancient Greek sentence "Nec Hercules contro plures"< even Hercules *** vs mob mass> :D

[Farashimisanoob]

Still, it's Abyss, anything goes in abyss.

[Takerial]

It depends on where you are if it can be shown as an accidently or intentional train.

If it is a high traffic area where people are constantly moving then it could indeed be an accidental.

However, if it's an a secluded area where it's impossible to train someone accidently because no one in their right mind runs the opposite way to the entrance if they are running to save themselves.

So keep the minimapped zoomed out and take a good screenie. Coupled if the person doing the training says something to you "They usually do" it's not too difficult to show it was intentional in that situation.

[rbd1313]

In my opinion:
1. They should have respected you for your spot.
2. They shouldnt have trained you like that.
3. You are a paladin LV60+ a even a group of 4 or 5 monsters cant posibly kill you.
4. Never fight back
5. Abyss= Enter at own risk
6. why not offer to work together?
7. Take a screen shot next time, specially of the strong language.(Abuse)
8. It comes to show you who is the baby now eh?


1. there is no "your spot" their spot anyone spot that has been cleared up by a GM that if you can get there you have the right to be there...
2. it was pvp area and since they attacked me with cause I attacked back why should i be the only one to lose my scrolls.
3. I do take count that it is the Abyss and PVP however if you've been in the abyss lately most ppl enter to grind for the drop rate and decent xp not for actually fighting one another they got battle field and GWs for that.
4.I would have fully worked with them if asked since there were only 3 in the party and I was duoing with an arch...However Like I tried to say before in upset hastilly typing we went into room started killing mobs and saw simply in chat and i quote "we are waiting for our fighter to return" nothing else was said nor did we know if it was directed to us or someone else or simpley in the wrong chat box no names were said no other warnings nothing not even a simple hey you guys.
5.it wasn't 4 or 5 mobs we were fighting about 10 our selfs when the other person started gathering the room up which rough count would be 20 to 30 more mobs. of course thinking that their fighter must have return and busy with the 10 we had we paid know attention to this until that player cross right in front of us luckly before she did her multi-shot but before we knew it this person was in front of us again and stopped and died drop those 20 to 30 mobs off along with the 5 or so we had left.
6. screen shots were taken of the chat after the fact little busy killing mobs to catch the train pics and in the chat this person said that GMs have said trains are ok in Abyss those SSs have been sent to the right people now.
7. and final for you there is no reason to come into any thread and openly attack ppl by calling them any name even ones as small as "BABY"..


Still, it's Abyss, anything goes in abyss.

Well appeartly this thread is still open and discussion of this is going on and now where has it been found where a GM has said everything goes even Training in Abyss so maybe until we here from a reliable source ppl should think twice about "ANYTHING GOES"

It depends on where you are if it can be shown as an accidently or intentional train.

If it is a high traffic area where people are constantly moving then it could indeed be an accidental.



TY this is what I'm saying it wasn't like we were standing in a high traffic path or he just happened to die while running right in front of us.

This was purely intentional and even if hard to prove if it was or wasn't the question still remains "CAN YOU INTENTIONALLY TRAIN SOMEONE IN THE ABYSS?"

come kill me to get me out of the spot war me whatever but I say intentional trains because you can't do it yourself is cowardly and causes me to lose xp and therefor should be against ToS but still waiting to hear from a GM let me say this again Still waiting to hear from a GM either through this post or the PMs that have been sent IF or IF NOT a train is allowed..

At least if answered in this post it will be here for all to see.

TY

[smitske]

Still, it's Abyss, anything goes in abyss.

You cant be more wrong, its not cause your suddenly in a PvP area you can go Ks'ing people, cussing people or training people.
The only real change is that you dont have to Gw them for revenge and it isnt harasment.

[Balder]

You cant be more wrong, its not cause your suddenly in a PvP area you can go Ks'ing people, cussing people or training people.
The only real change is that you dont have to Gw them for revenge and it isnt harasment.

It is as smitske said. The rules of abyss may be vague but in no way allow for such behaviour.

[hesqua]

Hmm is there any official guide lines on this issue yet?!

[Gaaraxxx]

Non-Official Answer

Scandal!!!!!

[joecracker]

You cant be more wrong, its not cause your suddenly in a PvP area you can go Ks'ing people, cussing people or training people.
The only real change is that you dont have to Gw them for revenge and it isnt harasment.


not true, when u enter in the PVP place, there is NO RULES, meaning u can do whatever you want

this is the whole reason this is even here, higher drop and exp, but risk of anything goes

EDIT, u cant cuss at people anywhere

EDIT - i have read many times that the GM's have even posted anything goes, if u report somoen for anything but cussing in abyss u 1 are waisting gm's time, 2 shame on u, u dont like lossing exp or mobs dont go there

[Takerial]

It's anything goes in terms of pvp. It's much akin to the idea that you'll have anything goes fighting, but people still aren't allowed to do such things as pulling out a gun and shooting the other person.

And you are not allowed to harrass someone in way that would impede their gameplay no matter what.

[smitske]

It's anything goes in terms of pvp. It's much akin to the idea that you'll have anything goes fighting, but people still aren't allowed to do such things as pulling out a gun and shooting the other person.

And you are not allowed to harrass someone in way that would impede their gameplay no matter what.

which uncludes jks'ing and training, it doesnt go there, but revenge for it is legimite there.
Also it depends form Gm to gm, onewould say he doesnt care, but another would say ks'ing and training wouldnt be allowed.

[Takerial]

Indeed. The Anything Goes Rule applies to pvp rules. People can pvp you there for any reason whenever they want.

Training and Ksing are not pvp.

[Serric]

Sadly, I have not received an official response yet. X(

Here is what I DO know:

TOS vioalations are not permitted anywhere in the game, period.

Shroom killing is allowed with the exception of killing someone who is actively trying to leave the area as a means to harass or prevent them from leaving. Same goes for spawn killing.

Now, as for speculation:

PVP = Player vs Player, not Player vs Player trailing a conga line of mobs. In fact, I find that behavior... well... dare I say, a touch on the cowardly side. If you can't stand toe to toe with smeone then doing pick a fight, I guess. Secondly, that is making the battle PVE (Player vs Environment) and not PVP.

PVP areas are not necessarily a place for you to sateisfy your raw bloodlust. By all means, whomever steps into the area is subject to a world of hurt and misery but remain respectful at all times and if they say they are leaving, let them leave.

As for killstealing... this one is tricky. Now remember, this is NOT an official OutSpark response but merely my speculation... KillStealing, I feel, would be allowed in PVP areas. The difference being if someone steals your kill, you can openly attack them as a means fo defence/revenge - this is a far cry from killstealing in non pvp areas and those would still constitute a violation.

just my 2 cents.

[Angelxx]

As for killstealing... this one is tricky. Now remember, this is NOT an official OutSpark response but merely my speculation... KillStealing, I feel, would be allowed in PVP areas. The difference being if someone steals your kill, you can openly attack them as a means fo defence/revenge - this is a far cry from killstealing in non pvp areas and those would still constitute a violation.

Personally I feel that killstealing = affecting a person's gameplay and is thus against the rules too.

As for those who say that anything goes in PVP areas, remember that the TOS, common courtesy and common sense still applies.