Game favors parties TOOO MUCH

[Kage72]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's cool to have parties and all. But, this game is designed to favor parties way too much. With area spells, the party can undermind any solo play waaaaay too easily.

I mean.... COME ON.... It's the only way people play because it's so favored. Couple people that focus on nothing but damage, than a cleric that does nothing but speed heal. Just makes a complete mockery of anybody that likes solo hunt. I've done both. Parties just move 10x faster. :/ Just sucks that i feel I MUST party to recieve decent exp. Not all gamers are social butterflies. You don't wanna alienate these people. This game is VERY frustrating for solo hunters.

One idea would be slightly increasing the exp. recieved from non-parties. Nothing extreme. Just something to HELP offset the extreme difference. Something to entice the solo players to stay.

Another idea would be special Non-Party Dungeons. Places that would force solo play to hunt in them. The experince of mobs could be slightly increased.

[Jhanniss]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's cool to have parties and all. But, this game is designed to favor parties way too much. With area spells, the party can undermind any solo play waaaaay too easily.

I mean.... COME ON.... It's the only way people play because it's so favored. Couple people that focus on nothing but damage, than a cleric that does nothing but speed heal. Just makes a complete mockery of anybody that likes solo hunt. I've done both. Parties just move 10x faster. :/ Just sucks that i feel I MUST party to recieve decent exp. Not all gamers are social butterflies. You don't wanna alienate these people. This game is VERY frustrating for solo hunters.

One idea would be slightly increasing the exp. recieved from non-parties. Nothing extreme. Just something to HELP offset the extreme difference. Something to entice the solo players to stay.

Another idea would be special Non-Party Dungeons. Places that would force solo play to hunt in them. The experince of mobs could be slightly increased.

Is that why I can never find a group? >P

[KireiYosei]

Thats another balance issue. TBH I think soloing in this game is way harder than it should be.

[wendaboogy]

depends on how you solo, actually :) My boyfriend and I have worked out a system for soloing... levels 45-55, I could get 50k in 15 minutes, solo, in Uruga. levels 55-65 (we're guessing as level 65 hasn't been attained by either of us just yet), we can get around 100k for 15 minutes of grinding, solo, in AeW. just depends on how you solo - if you rest after every mob, it will be slow. If you stone like mad, it costs a bit more, but you can gain exp in great amounts, and the drops you'll get more than covers the stone cost in the end ^^
Another thing that makes a difference is the level of mobs you solo on. Orange, and just barely red mobs will give the most experience solo. The ones your level, yellow mobs, are great for doing quests, but you shouldn't grind solo on those for exp. And of course, green and gray mobs you wouldn't solo on for exp xP

[yourmojo]

Well...You're probaly talking about higher levels, but I'm still going to have to disagree with you on this one even though I'm 37. Yes, they do favor parties. Why you ask? Because it promotes community. If parties weren't desireable you would have more KSing, more spawn hogging...etc.

I am lvl 37 now, I have partied three times total. Once with a fighter, which ended up horrible...Less exp and waste of SP to heal him. One time with 3 people, same thing; horrible exp, less drops etc...

The one time I partied with a mage. The cleric / mage duo is insane, I will admit. But we still had to share exp. It's annoying and it's easier to just solo at my level. In fact, I think they should give exp bonus for ful parties. This would promote partying even further, instead of having it split exp into the useless 50% that it is now...I can either get 100 per kill duoing, or 200 solo...Solo you keep all drops, exp, and there's no nonsense.

So, they game may focus more on parties, but there are still huge advantages to soloing. It just happens to be that it's more difficult because there's only one person...And think about this, doesn't it make sense to focus on parties? Could 1 person really eliminate an army of monsters easily? Heck no, it takes teamwork and variety to take out an army. Unless it's devil may cry...That is the only exception to this rule XD

EDIT::

Also, you might be focusing on the wrong stats for your class. Take my solo cleric for example. I focus entirely on critical and STR. I get along fine solo. You don't need END at all. Right now I have 16% critical and full STR. You have to be able to compensate for the lost party members if you're solo. Buy a critical set from the store, glasses, damage enhancers...etc.

[Kage72]

depends on how you solo, actually :) My boyfriend and I have worked out a system for soloing... levels 45-55, I could get 50k in 15 minutes, solo, in Uruga. levels 55-65 (we're guessing as level 65 hasn't been attained by either of us just yet), we can get around 100k for 15 minutes of grinding, solo, in AeW. just depends on how you solo - if you rest after every mob, it will be slow. If you stone like mad, it costs a bit more, but you can gain exp in great amounts, and the drops you'll get more than covers the stone cost in the end ^^
Another thing that makes a difference is the level of mobs you solo on. Orange, and just barely red mobs will give the most experience solo. The ones your level, yellow mobs, are great for doing quests, but you shouldn't grind solo on those for exp. And of course, green and gray mobs you wouldn't solo on for exp xP


Not really. No matter how good of a solo spot you think you have... a party can earn exp 5-10x faster in same spot(unless slow spawn denies). I don't rest. I'm a cleric using a +9 boss weapon. But, when these area spells will hit ALL mobs(not just the number the spell reads), it just makes a mockery of non-area spells. The spell is supposed to effect 5 mobs.... But, it seems to be broken allowing players to do damage to 15-20+ mobs at a time(thereby making the spell 3-4x stronger than it should be).

Perhaps the only real balance needed is to make these area spells work correctly.

[Farashimisanoob]

Didn't it say being in a party grants more exp, kupo?

[bskll]

If you wanted to solo so much, please go play a single player game.

this is a MMORPG. massive-MULTIPLAYER-online-role-playing-game.

the whole point is to party with other people and get incentives for doing so, so the whole game mechanics is based around that.

[Kage72]

Well...You're probaly talking about higher levels, but I'm still going to have to disagree with you on this one even though I'm 37. Yes, they do favor parties. Why you ask? Because it promotes community. If parties weren't desireable you would have more KSing, more spawn hogging...etc.

I am lvl 37 now, I have partied three times total. Once with a fighter, which ended up horrible...Less exp and waste of SP to heal him. One time with 3 people, same thing; horrible exp, less drops etc...

The one time I partied with a mage. The cleric / mage duo is insane, I will admit. But we still had to share exp. It's annoying and it's easier to just solo at my level. In fact, I think they should give exp bonus for ful parties. This would promote partying even further, instead of having it split exp into the useless 50% that it is now...I can either get 100 per kill duoing, or 200 solo...Solo you keep all drops, exp, and there's no nonsense.

So, they game may focus more on parties, but there are still huge advantages to soloing. It just happens to be that it's more difficult because there's only one person...And think about this, doesn't it make sense to focus on parties? Could 1 person really eliminate an army of monsters easily? Heck no, it takes teamwork and variety to take out an army. Unless it's devil may cry...That is the only exception to this rule XD

EDIT::

Also, you might be focusing on the wrong stats for your class. Take my solo cleric for example. I focus entirely on critical and STR. I get along fine solo. You don't need END at all. Right now I have 16% critical and full STR. You have to be able to compensate for the lost party members if you're solo. Buy a critical set from the store, glasses, damage enhancers...etc.

I'm sorry. But, you just don't seem to understand. A solo player gets all the loot? That doesn't matter at all when you get twice as much loot in a party killing mobs 10x faster. Which is more? Loot from 2 mobs, or sharing loot from 20 mobs with 3 people, lol.

Like i was saying, I understand the idealism of parties. Altho, in this game they are simply used to increased exp/loot. People want you for a party because of ability... NOT because your a nice guy or they wanna make friends. That's what guilds are for... gathering of friends. Parties are just a way to level faster.

[smitske]

Well...You're probaly talking about higher levels, but I'm still going to have to disagree with you on this one even though I'm 37. Yes, they do favor parties. Why you ask? Because it promotes community. If parties weren't desireable you would have more KSing, more spawn hogging...etc.

I am lvl 37 now, I have partied three times total. Once with a fighter, which ended up horrible...Less exp and waste of SP to heal him. One time with 3 people, same thing; horrible exp, less drops etc...

The one time I partied with a mage. The cleric / mage duo is insane, I will admit. But we still had to share exp. It's annoying and it's easier to just solo at my level. In fact, I think they should give exp bonus for ful parties. This would promote partying even further, instead of having it split exp into the useless 50% that it is now...I can either get 100 per kill duoing, or 200 solo...Solo you keep all drops, exp, and there's no nonsense.

So, they game may focus more on parties, but there are still huge advantages to soloing. It just happens to be that it's more difficult because there's only one person...And think about this, doesn't it make sense to focus on parties? Could 1 person really eliminate an army of monsters easily? Heck no, it takes teamwork and variety to take out an army. Unless it's devil may cry...That is the only exception to this rule XD

EDIT::

Also, you might be focusing on the wrong stats for your class. Take my solo cleric for example. I focus entirely on critical and STR. I get along fine solo. You don't need END at all. Right now I have 16% critical and full STR. You have to be able to compensate for the lost party members if you're solo. Buy a critical set from the store, glasses, damage enhancers...etc.

yor theory is wrong, if you solo it givs you100exp(to make it easy) and in pt 60 exp(pt of 2)
you always get a bonus.

[Serric]

well yes, you can get more xp in parties because you can kill faster and need to heal less. However, I solo 99% of the time and am fine - I just choose my targets carefully and grind.

I would say the game favors parties, yes, but not as much to force an imbalance as much as to get people to play together as a group/community.

[Farashimisanoob]

But, but, but.. Leveling takes forever, unkupo )=.

[Kage72]

If you wanted to solo so much, please go play a single player game.

this is a MMORPG. massive-MULTIPLAYER-online-role-playing-game.

the whole point is to party with other people and get incentives for doing so, so the whole game mechanics is based around that.

Wow, now that is a completely ignorant way of thinking, lol. You think mmorpg are for party play? ROFL. They are for community environment, duh. Your way of thinking sure isn't very business savy. You think there are games for solo play and games for party play? A smart person would realize the best way is to accomodate both. :)

[Farashimisanoob]

MMORPG's are about Social Interaction, this isn't halo mind you, kupo.

[viorexx]

Like somenone said. this game is for parties and groups of poeple or community. in a party you can get way more xp and within abyss you can kill 40 mob at once and get planty of xp iwth a full party. you are right that soloing is harder. But there are those that lvl there lic those guy are insane. how can they kill over 10,000 mob to complete a lic is just to much.

[Kage72]

well yes, you can get more xp in parties because you can kill faster and need to heal less. However, I solo 99% of the time and am fine - I just choose my targets carefully and grind.

I would say the game favors parties, yes, but not as much to force an imbalance as much as to get people to play together as a group/community.


I applaud your solo grinding! :) Like i was saying tho. People ONLY want you for a party for your ability to help themself. So, if your not the prefered class, or your not using a +9 weapon, you are often rejected from joining parties. So, as much as some think parties are to encourage friendly community, I can assure you "parties" have alienated many players. I wonder how many people have quit because nobody wants them in their party? And they realize the only way to play this game efficiently is with them.

So, do parties actually promote a friendly community? Or does it enforce a division. An upper class of +9 users damagers and a lower class on non-enhanced weapons. I just think it would be ALOT cooler to party with people you like instead of just people that will make the exp. flow faster.

[Kage72]

MMORPG's are about Social Interaction, this isn't halo mind you, kupo.


Yeah, i agree. And i interact regularly with guildmates and players all the time. I just don't think they(mmorpgs) are to promote group play. That's a personal choice. I love to chat with people in town and I love to buff every single person i see hunting. :) I chat with guildmate and friends all the time. But, like i was saying... parties are much much more of a business than a social gathering. Not your how much chatting you doing in nonstop aeo parties, lol. As a cleric, I can't risk attempting to use chat or someone will die, lol.

[Kage72]

Like somenone said. this game is for parties and groups of poeple or community. in a party you can get way more xp and within abyss you can kill 40 mob at once and get planty of xp iwth a full party. you are right that soloing is harder. But there are those that lvl there lic those guy are insane. how can they kill over 10,000 mob to complete a lic is just to much.

I don't believe there are licenses for abyss mobs. I had made a thread about licenses, too. :) How solo players and clerics have to complete these 1 at a time. As opposed to the party damager that is getting healed while he kills 20 at a time, lol

[sammyhelsing]

I hardly ever partied and i did quite fine to cap. You just know how to solo and where to do it and how to do it.
Even without a party i was getting exp fast .. probably not as fast as a party but it wasn't that bad.

[Cloud-Strife1984]

Fighter Lv 60+ is sh**,all partys need Mages and Clerics.
Cleric Heal and Tank
Mage fight.

And Fighter most alone fighting,sorry GM's mage is to strong and fighter to low for tank.

[Atmor]

I agree with some things said here, and strongly disagree with most of it.

1) If you are built right and have the right eqips, you can solo fairly effectivly, with clerics being the possible exception due to no AoE attack which IMO they don't need.

2) I have a lvl 71 archer on Epith, I didn't rely on parties the majority of the time because they weren't there, but I still lvled faster than just about everyone else, and I have money to spare.

3) I lost my train of thought, I'll be back though...

[yourmojo]

I'm sorry. But, you just don't seem to understand. A solo player gets all the loot? That doesn't matter at all when you get twice as much loot in a party killing mobs 10x faster. Which is more? Loot from 2 mobs, or sharing loot from 20 mobs with 3 people, lol.

Like i was saying, I understand the idealism of parties. Altho, in this game they are simply used to increased exp/loot. People want you for a party because of ability... NOT because your a nice guy or they wanna make friends. That's what guilds are for... gathering of friends. Parties are just a way to level faster.What am I not understanding? You are SOLO of course your going to kill slower, and get less loot. But you keep it all. If an awesome green drops, whoever you are partying with can pick it up instead of you, thus meaning you lose money. Solo, you keep all the drops, regardless of how fast they are dropping.

Umm, half the people I party, I would be partying them because they are friends. Guilds are a good resource for parties, but it's certainly not limited to guilds for friends...Many people on my list will PM me asking to train, not because I'm good but because we have fun playing together.


yor theory is wrong, if you solo it givs you100exp(to make it easy) and in pt 60 exp(pt of 2)
you always get a bonus.What theory? an extra 10 exp? big deal...That's a pretty fail exp bonus...Add more people and it's even more fail of a bonus. Unless your AOE, the exp gets cut way down.

[k7leetha]

If you wanted to solo so much, please go play a single player game.

this is a MMORPG. massive-MULTIPLAYER-online-role-playing-game.

the whole point is to party with other people and get incentives for doing so, so the whole game mechanics is based around that.

Yes and no.

It IS a MMO, meaning multiplayer.

That does NOT mean that it is required or intended to be party only.

However, it is obvious that THIS game IS very heavily party oriented.

But again, since that IS the case, then this might not be the game for him/her. If you prefer to solo, you should play a game that favors solo playing more, or is tailored better to suit your needs.

[Khrim]

I solo just fine at lv 27/28 in places like moonlight tombl...I actually solo BETTER there on my HighCleric then I do with a party because I don't have to watch other people's hp -.-;; I've died trying to keep my party members alive before...I'm a str/end cleric so yeah...I solo real uber. *charges into 3 bats and 2 spiders* DIIIIIIE

People keep asking me for parties on my HighCleric and I just decline every time...I prefer to solo and so far it's working just fine. I get the kills I want, the drops I want, and I don't have to share anything :)

[havestar]

I prefer to solo most of the time and I do just fine. I've made it to lv61 soloing 95% of the time. If I actually play enough (which I've seemingly lost the motivation to do this past week), I can gain a level per day.

Edit: You are right, though. This game definitely favors parties and nothing annoys me more than an AoE party that comes in and gathers up every single monster in an area that I'm soloing in. Even after asking them nicely to leave me some, they just don't care and continue to do it, forcing me to find another place to grind.

[yourmojo]

I solo just fine at lv 27/28 in places like moonlight tombl...I actually solo BETTER there on my HighCleric then I do with a party because I don't have to watch other people's hp -.-;; I've died trying to keep my party members alive before...I'm a str/end cleric so yeah...I solo real uber. *charges into 3 bats and 2 spiders* DIIIIIIE

People keep asking me for parties on my HighCleric and I just decline every time...I prefer to solo and so far it's working just fine. I get the kills I want, the drops I want, and I don't have to share anything :)
lol, it's more like, DIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE -gasp- EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.........EEEEEEE

Yea that was really annoying MT. I'd get people KSing and spamming invites, just in case I changed my mind from the last party invite 3 seconds ago XD

[Kage72]

I prefer to solo most of the time and I do just fine. I've made it to lv61 soloing 95% of the time. If I actually play enough (which I've seemingly lost the motivation to do this past week), I can gain a level per day.

Edit: You are right, though. This game definitely favors parties and nothing annoys me more than an AoE party that comes in and gathers up every single monster in an area that I'm soloing in. Even after asking them nicely to leave me some, they just don't care and continue to do it, forcing me to find another place to grind.


I'm not saying solo isn't possible. Just that is so much less efficient than party. I'm lev.53 myself. But, have watched soo many friends level up to 79 in reconrd time using parties, lol. You think not leaving you some is bad... I actually had some guy stop to devastate away my mobs to add to his aoe party.

Like one of the 1st replies said, it's just a matter of balance. Granted, as said above, much of the unbalance is due to a BUG allowing people to hit every mobs with area spells. They wouldn't kill half as fast if their spells only effected the number of mobs it was supposed to. They wouldn't be gathering 20 mobs if their spell only effected 6 like it's supposed to.

[ToorimaKun]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's cool to have parties and all. But, this game is designed to favor parties way too much.
O.o UH?
this game needs to BE MORE PT based...


Didn't it say being in a party grants more exp, kupo?
yes it dose.

If you wanted to solo so much, please go play a single player game.
this is a MMORPG. massive-MULTIPLAYER-online-role-playing-game.
the whole point is to party with other people and get incentives for doing so, so the whole game mechanics is based around that.
Single player?? whats that? O.O
is that were you play a game MADE for SOLOing and you don't just take up levling spots. :o

But, but, but.. Leveling takes forever, unkupo )=.
he he, good. :)
i don't like high levl noobs... keep it takeing forever to levl. ^^


MMORPG's are about Social Interaction, this isn't halo mind you, kupo.

Social, you mean we can do more then SOLO GRIND in this game. :O
OMG!! thats sweet!!
------------------------
any way... i FULLY support a PT based MMO... and would like to see some more reasons to PT more in this game.

**one of the biggest isuess that this would fix is more avalible places for people to grind, instead of SOLOers takeing up spots.**

[rtan9838]

PARTY PARTY PARTY!!!!! One reason why I LOVE this game! It's so social and you don't get bored so easily with grinding alone. The kqs and the group boss huntings are so much fun.

But I think solo is just fine for me, I don't do it much since I have made a few friends on fiesta and always hunt zk or do quests or else kq together.

I have made all 4 chars to around lvl 26 but out of the 4, I like fighter most, so am sticking to that and grinding solo on fighter is just so much easier. hardest on archer and mage, but not impossible - infact easier on mage but not when i get mobbed.

I don't think there's anything bad on a party favouring game anyhow - the opposite is so borrriiinnngggg.

edit: being a fighter, i don't necessarily need to party with a cleric, but clerics are desirable for higher lvl places. the rate i kill solo in say, vt, i get 130 exp, in a duo party, i'd get around 90 maybe (the exp actually isn't halved). but if i bring a cleric (or even none) and 1-2 damage dealers (mage or archer) and i use my axe, the killing is just as fast, if not faster, and the exp i get there is about 150-220 which is more than i get solo.

that being said, to compare my solo killing pros - i get all the drops. but sometimes i use more sp and hp stones due to protect myself. whilst if i were in the party, i'd get higher lvl drops that i might actually need plus i can save on some sp and hp pots as i don't need to spam my skills that often (i can for faster kill, but say it takes me all my dmg skills to kill one mob alone, it would take me half that amount in a party).

[dimanoroji]

Actually only parties that work well together get the most out of partying. It also depends where and how you're grinding. AOE parties (in my opinion) give the most exp, but only if you have good players. I'm a mage, and I used to love duoing, but not really anymore...I just get more exp soloing. The only times I like partying (aside from KQ's =P) are when there's an exp boost.

[XelveX]

One definition:

Fiesta- To Party

-trills- FIESTA! TA LALALA LA~!

LETS LIMBO~~! :D

[Kage72]

All I am saying is that it makes no sense to actually give a preference to one over the other. Why would you wanna restricted your customer base?

Altho, the title is a tad misleading now that i think about it. It's NOT about any party. It's about AOE parties.

Altho, nobody has wanted to comment on the fact that the area spells are bugged, so I suppose I should make a new thread on it. :) Since it is the bugged area spells that are causing such an extreme unbalance. :)

[whitecrowe]

Why are you restricted? Do you want to level extreamly quickly but can't killing only a fraction of the monsters a team of 5 can?

Meh, I spent some time in AoE parties and the exp wasn't terrible, but the drops were terrible since some people can't just spam the 2 button and I never had the chance to find anything rare. I left with empty pockets and something of dissapointment. Then I actually went out and grinded harken, taking a few coll now and then, and I made 10s in sbl alone.. 30 minutes by myself defeated 3 hours in a freaking cave guzzeling stones and potions.

Soloing has some good aspects after all. Like making a profit or actually killing something without 4 people standing there holding your hand.

Changing the AoE skills to work on the intended targets.. Does this mean everyone will be forced to solo? I mean, KQs past gold hill would be nearly impossible to do since 2 fighters can't mock a room full of enemies and magi/archers can't hurt too many monstera at once. Clerics would be too busy fighting to heal and it would just end up terrible.
And I doubt I'd join a party in my 60s if I had to share my drops with people who just kind of leeched away my exp. And I'm not sure about the number, but if magi can hit more than 3 monsters at a time archers are sure to become partyless for legit reasons this time.

[donkster]

i dont know is anyone has mentioned this, but fiesta does mean party, so party.

http://ridgeonline.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/party_1.jpg

[MissusDolly]

I solo like 25%, party 15%, and duo the rest. Soloing is tough and tedious for any class, but you learn to deal. Though soloing can be fun and sorta relaxing, the game was made to form a social community. Fiesta=party. Don't get me wrong, some things can and should be twisted up to allow a tad easier solo time, but not much different then what it is like already. I like to solo, but like to party too. You just need to adapt to being a bit more of a social butterfly. ;D Fly out of your comfort zones little butterfly.
-Dolly

[ofbraindoiLack]

It depends.

After soloing for awhile, you begin to know your limits and capacity, especially what benefits you'll gain from it in opting from the party.
With the right scrolls and whatnot, I can handle a larger train than many aoe parites in CP.
Usually I only do this to demoralize the party from training nearby mobs, since it can zap a cleric's sp much too quickly.

I'm not going to say whether I favor soloing over parties for whatever reason[hybrid because the preference fluxiates over levels], but Fiesta DOES instill the importance of parties with quests early on(King Crab, Gang Imps, etc.), and with the Kingdom Quests.

However, it's a matter of what YOU like to do and what your BUILD/money can handle.

[Balder]

Funny, I thought a person who favored soloing would be totally indifferent to wherther or not this game favor pts like me. Ever since I hit 60, and thanks to my incredible amount of hp pot, ive been soloing at least 10 orcs at a time with my +9 getting nearly 3k for each kill. True, pting is faster xp gain but I like soloing cause im basically playing at my own pace.

Serioulsy, if you love soloing so much, why care if people are pting so much? or does it bother you that they gain faster xp and more drops than you cause they do? A true soloer wouldn't give it a single thought...

[bskll]

lets take a look at the biggest MMO to date: WoW.

even in there, parties are favoured in the game mechanics.

why you ask? its because only then it will be consistent with the design principle.

since the ultimate goal of a MMO is to have a persistent game world where people are interacting with each other per real life, it makes sense to give them some incentive to play together and go through the game not alone.

And really, how you are you "playing" together if you are just sitting in town and chatting to people? you might as well go to a chat room instead playing an MMO.
As long as an RPG has so called "support" class in it, you're gonna have to somehow give people incentive to play those class.

just taking a short example in fiesta. If every mage/fighter/archer can solo mobs and get effective exp, why the need for healing clerics. since we have to give some incentive to get people playing clerics, we gonna have to fighter/mage/archer spells that AoE mobs. its a pretty natural progression to me there.

what you are talking about is a game like Diablo 2. in that game, every class is a effective killer and there's no healer. people party only to get quests done faster, not to lvl faster in that game. and guess what, Diablo 2 isn't an MMO.

[kalone]

It's so boring when soloing.

[smitske]

ye, i want more quests.

[Fhqwghads]

If you wanted to solo so much, please go play a single player game.

this is a MMORPG. massive-MULTIPLAYER-online-role-playing-game.

the whole point is to party with other people and get incentives for doing so, so the whole game mechanics is based around that.
^ What he said. This post wins the thread, hands down.


Wow, now that is a completely ignorant way of thinking, lol. You think mmorpg are for party play? ROFL. They are for community environment, duh. Your way of thinking sure isn't very business savy. You think there are games for solo play and games for party play? A smart person would realize the best way is to accomodate both. :)
Community environment is only 1 aspect. If that's all you want go play Second Life. You don't have to party to get XP in that game from what I understand, and all it has is social interaction. Talk about "ignorant." This game has mechanisms in place for you to solo. Stop whining. Can you solo at the same pace you can when you're in a group? Of course not, and that's the way it should be. If you want to be anti-social and not work together with other people, then you should be penalized for it.

An MMORPG is, by definition, a concept that fosters interaction and team work with fellow players. It's also an idea that was based on D&D. So what's the difference between D&D and an MMORPG? An MMORPG has in order of magnitudes more people, and it's online. Other than that, in D&D how many solo campaigns are there vs. campaigns meant for a group? Yeah, not many. Since MMORPGs are loosely based off of AD&D and other pen & paper role playing games, it's safe to say that the grouping aspects of it are at the very foundation of game play. Deal with it, or go play something else.

[Kage72]

Funny, I thought a person who favored soloing would be totally indifferent to wherther or not this game favor pts like me. Ever since I hit 60, and thanks to my incredible amount of hp pot, ive been soloing at least 10 orcs at a time with my +9 getting nearly 3k for each kill. True, pting is faster xp gain but I like soloing cause im basically playing at my own pace.

Serioulsy, if you love soloing so much, why care if people are pting so much? or does it bother you that they gain faster xp and more drops than you cause they do? A true soloer wouldn't give it a single thought...

I guess it has to do with the tedious task of leveling at upper levels. It's just sooo slow that it's demoralizing to see people moving 5x faster. You just realize how futile your attempts to level are. Or, at least, you don't feel as gratified knowing your hardwork doesn't really pay off, hehe. You grind for a few hours which feels like work. Then you realize a party will earn more in an hour, lol.

[Kage72]

lets take a look at the biggest MMO to date: WoW.

even in there, parties are favoured in the game mechanics.

why you ask? its because only then it will be consistent with the design principle.

since the ultimate goal of a MMO is to have a persistent game world where people are interacting with each other per real life, it makes sense to give them some incentive to play together and go through the game not alone.

And really, how you are you "playing" together if you are just sitting in town and chatting to people? you might as well go to a chat room instead playing an MMO.
As long as an RPG has so called "support" class in it, you're gonna have to somehow give people incentive to play those class.

just taking a short example in fiesta. If every mage/fighter/archer can solo mobs and get effective exp, why the need for healing clerics. since we have to give some incentive to get people playing clerics, we gonna have to fighter/mage/archer spells that AoE mobs. its a pretty natural progression to me there.

what you are talking about is a game like Diablo 2. in that game, every class is a effective killer and there's no healer. people party only to get quests done faster, not to lvl faster in that game. and guess what, Diablo 2 isn't an MMO.


Well, like i have said a few times....

Parties I've been in rarely are EVER social events. They are about business and earning faster experience. I do most of my socializing while in town and in guild chat. It's too easy to get screwed when toggling out of chat mode while hunting. Especially as a cleric, I hardly get a second free to chat. One chat can mean the tank dies, lol

[bskll]

in a word, you're just sore.

please do not confuse your own soreness with a problem in the game mechanics. they are two different things.

[smitske]

lolz party's social?
i dont call: you noob heal faster stupid cleric.
if thats the only thing said i dont call that "social"

[Kage72]

^ What he said. This post wins the thread, hands down.


Community environment is only 1 aspect. If that's all you want go play Second Life. You don't have to party to get XP in that game from what I understand, and all it has is social interaction. Talk about "ignorant." This game has mechanisms in place for you to solo. Stop whining. Can you solo at the same pace you can when you're in a group? Of course not, and that's the way it should be. If you want to be anti-social and not work together with other people, then you should be penalized for it.

An MMORPG is, by definition, a concept that fosters interaction and team work with fellow players. It's also an idea that was based on D&D. So what's the difference between D&D and an MMORPG? An MMORPG has in order of magnitudes more people, and it's online. Other than that, in D&D how many solo campaigns are there vs. campaigns meant for a group? Yeah, not many. Since MMORPGs are loosely based off of AD&D and other pen & paper role playing games, it's safe to say that the grouping aspects of it are at the very foundation of game play. Deal with it, or go play something else.

mmorpgs were just the next generation in rpgs. MMO in itself has nothing to do with enciting cooperative play. I play many MMO's that have none. Magic Online is an MMO that is primarily a 1v1 game. They offer a teamplay format but it is definitely the minority. MMO's are just a way to take the game online to play with other people.

Altho, like i've said a few times now...

This isn't really so much about parties. A general party isn't that unbalanced. It's just the aoe parties that can damage 20 mobs at a time with bugged area spells. Basically it's a bug that allows for the exploiting of the system. It's harder to feel proud of your level attainment when you know a bug is allowing most to do it with a fraction of the effort.

[Kage72]

lolz party's social?
i dont call: you noob heal faster stupid cleric.
if thats the only thing said i dont call that "social"

rofl. yep. Like i said. parties are more about business, less about socializing, lol. :) I love all the people in KQ's that blame cleric for not keeping them alive.

Too many people make parties based on ability to kill efficiently. In a sense, the party disrupts the community. I've read endless threads about nobody wanting them for parties because they aren't the "Best" damager.
People party by class mostly, often times omitting friends that aren't the pefered class. 2 cleric friends can hardly ever find a party together because most parties don't need more than 1 healer. Not to mention the poor archers that often get shunned for mages/fighters. :/

[timon5000]

Cant member but doesnt nova take like 10 mobs at once j/w cuz um is it really supposed to hit that many at once? the aoe spells I believe are messed up i tried to solo but this one guy kept taking all the mobs I was at because he had nova and and archer took it next time because of ven shot. I laughed becuz they did not leave me one thing. The only good thing about solo is the occasional green and you can eat or drink something while u solo

[Aveta]

First of all, soloers should not be trying to train in the same area as aoe parties.

Think of it this way, you are one person, they are 5. Why should you, one person, get the same thing as 5 people. Oh no, the party of 5 is pulling a group of 15 monsters! I as a soloer can only handle 3. Thats not fair that I just get three and they get 15, even though it all works out the same in the end *emo*

People are getting rewarded for their cooperation. All the parties I go in are on sequential, try asking for it. If they won't put it on seq, don't party with the greedy sobs. If people are counting drops so they get a certain item when it drops, just screw them up by spamming your pickup button, they'll have fun counting when you're making it impossible.

Try to come to an agreement about greens when you start. My parties usually work under class specific drops go to that class if the player wants it for their own use.

For example, my lvl 66 hat is sucky, only 11 end, if a 26 end hat drops I would want that for myself, and my party mates would oblige because that was the agreement. I would probably give my sucky hat to the person who got the drop so they at least get npc value.

But I have a really good hat for lvl 76, 32 end 17str. If a 12end 6dex lvl 76 hat were to drop and it didn't end up in my inv I would just let the person who got it keep it.

It all boils down to trust. I mostly party with friends, guildmates, and friends of both, we don't randomly scream for parties, we have a network that can quickly find a replacement when a spot goes vacant. I trust that my friends and the people they call friends would be honest about the drops they recieve. All of my good equipment came in parties like this, and I've returned the favor.

If you want to be greedy, go ahead, you can be greedy with the drops, I'll be greedy with the monsters. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[-Leona-]

Haven't read through the whole thing and won't bother BUT like i'm sure other people said, if u wanna play solo PLAY A SINGLE PLAYER game, the only purpose u play a multiplayer game is to interact with others, i like soloing myself BUT complainin about party is totally stupid :/.

[Suna_]

'Fiesta' is Spanish for 'Party'. 'nuff said ^^

[Kage72]

First of all, soloers should not be trying to train in the same area as aoe parties.

Think of it this way, you are one person, they are 5. Why should you, one person, get the same thing as 5 people. Oh no, the party of 5 is pulling a group of 15 monsters! I as a soloer can only handle 3. Thats not fair that I just get three and they get 15, even though it all works out the same in the end *emo*

People are getting rewarded for their cooperation. All the parties I go in are on sequential, try asking for it. If they won't put it on seq, don't party with the greedy sobs. If people are counting drops so they get a certain item when it drops, just screw them up by spamming your pickup button, they'll have fun counting when you're making it impossible.

Try to come to an agreement about greens when you start. My parties usually work under class specific drops go to that class if the player wants it for their own use.

For example, my lvl 66 hat is sucky, only 11 end, if a 26 end hat drops I would want that for myself, and my party mates would oblige because that was the agreement. I would probably give my sucky hat to the person who got the drop so they at least get npc value.

But I have a really good hat for lvl 76, 32 end 17str. If a 12end 6dex lvl 76 hat were to drop and it didn't end up in my inv I would just let the person who got it keep it.

It all boils down to trust. I mostly party with friends, guildmates, and friends of both, we don't randomly scream for parties, we have a network that can quickly find a replacement when a spot goes vacant. I trust that my friends and the people they call friends would be honest about the drops they recieve. All of my good equipment came in parties like this, and I've returned the favor.

If you want to be greedy, go ahead, you can be greedy with the drops, I'll be greedy with the monsters. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

No, i don't expect the same. But, I have tried both and the difference is HUGE!!! But, like most that are responding, I don't think you read all the posts. Mostly how I've isolated the problem in bugged area spells. Being able to damage 20 mobs at a time allows parties to move much faster than intended, hence making the difference too extreme. I'm not sure if this is one of those bugs that has been broken forever, or what. Whichever the case, it's a bug that is allowing huge exploit. When the spells allows a party to kill 3-4 times as many as normal.

[bskll]

ummm not really, the spells don't always work as the tooltip describes, doesn't mean its bugged. just means the tool tip should be updated.

case in point: the tooltip for Fear states 20 secs. but IG it lasts 4 secs without empowerment. Fear for 20 secs + chain cast = mage PVP gods.

its not really a huge exploit considering that the party has to tank all the mobs, usually using up t3 vit and t3 defs, spend lots of sp spamming heal, hp for the occasional time that hp goes too low. i'd say its a fair trade off.

and as many people have said and i as well, this game is about getting people to play in parties.

[Terranwolf]

One of the main goals of games like these are parties. They encourage them, hence why it's like that. It's all about working together and networking. ;)

[Thasmudyan]

Speaking as someone who both solos and parties with regularity...

Even AoE parties in general I wouldn't say are unbalanced. Yes, the exp per hour in a good AoE party is better than solo. It should be... because it's balanced out by downtime (death in the party, someone afk or disconnected, lack of mobs to pull, mage had to go restone, etc). The exp from AoE parties in AEW or FoS is reasonable, I'd say - fairly balanced with regards to encouraging parties, but not so off the charts as to make solo not a viable alternative.

The real imbalance comes in when you consider the Abyss zones.

Consider the design of the Abyss; they all contain huge numbers of very weak-hitting mobs packed tightly into small rooms - perfect for pulling and killing in mass numbers. The ideal situation for AoE parties. You can get 30 orcs at once because they're all there within pulling range, you can gather them up quickly, you can survive them all hitting your party because they hit weakly (if you could gather 30 shylphs, they'd kill most parties quickly), and with AoEs having no target limit, you can kill all 30 in the time it'd take you to kill one by itself. And when they die, you get an exp bonus because it's a PvP zone! An AoE party in the Abyss, given an entire room to themselves for any length of time, blows away any other party in any other zone with regards to exp/hour. It is these Abyss AoE parties that make people feel like solo isn't a viable choice.

Now, there are other factors to consider - yes, it's PvP, so you run the risk of being attacked there, and it is very popular, so you sometimes can't get a room or have to share one. However, PvP while grinding is very rare - none of my Abyss groups have ever been attacked by anyone. It happens, but it's not common.

I suppose my question is... was this intended? Giving people a faster way to level? You don't hear any complaining lately about exp rates post 60, now that there's Abyss zones. The exp rate in dungeons was increased too, giving 70+ another zone to grind in (Trumpy Remains). I agree with all this, and I agree that the Abyss should have an exp bonus, to offset the risk of fighting there. However, with the way the mobs are concentrated and weak there, it makes AoEing there almost too easy.

Changing the AoE spells to only affect the number of targets they say they affect would be one solution to this, although it would upset many AoE'rs. Another option would be to alter the Abyss maps, making mob density lower. Keep them weak, that is fine, but make it so it isn't so easy to gather 30 at once. I don't know if this is possible for the developer to do, though. Finally, and here's what I hope happens, introduce some new maps that give viable alternatives to the Abyss AoE group. Perhaps some solo-oriented maps with mobs that hit hard / special attacks but have low HP (difficult to AoE, but killable one on one). Or maps with mobs that are spaced out, like CP2 is now. Nobody goes there to AoE, but it's a good solo / duo zone.

Just a few thoughts from me... Again, I'm not saying anything needs to be changed. However, I feel it is kind of restricting to have one zone per level range be so much better for exp than the rest of the maps in the game. People should have choices on where to grind, and more places to explore is always a good thing as well. :)

[Terranwolf]

By the way, if mages wish to, they can solo about 20-40% faster than in a party. You hardly make a profit, and need Tier 3 scrolls though.



'Fiesta' is Spanish for 'Party'. 'nuff said ^^
As in celebration, yes. =3

[ToorimaKun]

i dont know is anyone has mentioned this, but fiesta does mean party, so party.

http://ridgeonline.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/party_1.jpg
OMG hot asian girls... love this pic. XD
er, any way go PTs lol

lets take a look at the biggest MMO to date: WoW.
even in there, parties are favoured in the game mechanics.
why you ask? its because only then it will be consistent with the design principle.
since the ultimate goal of a MMO is to have a persistent game world where people are interacting with each other per real life, it makes sense to give them some incentive to play together and go through the game not alone.
And really, how you are you "playing" together if you are just sitting in town and chatting to people? you might as well go to a chat room instead playing an MMO.
As long as an RPG has so called "support" class in it, you're gonna have to somehow give people incentive to play those class.
just taking a short example in fiesta. If every mage/fighter/archer can solo mobs and get effective exp, why the need for healing clerics. since we have to give some incentive to get people playing clerics, we gonna have to fighter/mage/archer spells that AoE mobs. its a pretty natural progression to me there.
what you are talking about is a game like Diablo 2. in that game, every class is a effective killer and there's no healer. people party only to get quests done faster, not to lvl faster in that game. and guess what, Diablo 2 isn't an MMO.
alot said but i agree

Haven't read through the whole thing and won't bother BUT like i'm sure other people said, if u wanna play solo PLAY A SINGLE PLAYER game, the only purpose u play a multiplayer game is to interact with others, i like soloing myself BUT complainin about party is totally stupid :/.
LMAO, i don't have time to read it all ether.

'Fiesta' is Spanish for 'Party'. 'nuff said ^^

short, simple and true... love these posts.

[Esoterra]

I don't know what the problem here, is. I never party. I solo, I dup, never party. Why?

Because I don't trust the usual random group of people.

They do not know how I deal with a mob, I do not know how they deal with theirs. I get someone killed, they get someone killed. When the only person you have to worry about is, well, yourself, then it's easier to continue in one pace. All the good drops are yours, (or your duo partners, and even then, it's always a friend.) and dying doesn't get you kicked from a party. If you solo well, you will get a HUGE exp amount per hour, and simply put, I get more soloing than in any, usual party. (There are few exceptions, and those were guild parties. Which is impossible for me now.) It's easier to handle things yourself than with other people, unless you can truly trust them.

[Poisoned77]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's cool to have parties and all. But, this game is designed to favor parties way too much. With area spells, the party can undermind any solo play waaaaay too easily.

I mean.... COME ON.... It's the only way people play because it's so favored. Couple people that focus on nothing but damage, than a cleric that does nothing but speed heal. Just makes a complete mockery of anybody that likes solo hunt. I've done both. Parties just move 10x faster. :/ Just sucks that i feel I MUST party to recieve decent exp. Not all gamers are social butterflies. You don't wanna alienate these people. This game is VERY frustrating for solo hunters.

One idea would be slightly increasing the exp. recieved from non-parties. Nothing extreme. Just something to HELP offset the extreme difference. Something to entice the solo players to stay.

Another idea would be special Non-Party Dungeons. Places that would force solo play to hunt in them. The experince of mobs could be slightly increased.

I completely disagree with you. I hardly ever party in game except in Kq's and I level a lot faster than most of my friends, the only thing that holds me back is my limited play time. I don't like parties because you have to share exp, and you have to share loot XD.

[tukinnam]

what the.. who said this game only favors pt's. Not to deviate from this game but I used to play FFXI and after level 10, you can barely solo mobs with same level. Now THAT is a PURE party based game (not sure how it is now, but it was like that 3 years ago).

This game is so easy to solo. I'm level 34 full end fighter and I solo at 40k+ per hour killing king colls and weak orcs. I tried pt and none of them seem serious about leveling. So I'll keep soloing. 2-3 hours per level. lovely.

[Kage72]

Speaking as someone who both solos and parties with regularity...

The real imbalance comes in when you consider the Abyss zones.

Consider the design of the Abyss; they all contain huge numbers of very weak-hitting mobs packed tightly into small rooms - perfect for pulling and killing in mass numbers. The ideal situation for AoE parties. You can get 30 orcs at once because they're all there within pulling range, you can gather them up quickly, you can survive them all hitting your party because they hit weakly (if you could gather 30 shylphs, they'd kill most parties quickly), and with AoEs having no target limit, you can kill all 30 in the time it'd take you to kill one by itself. And when they die, you get an exp bonus because it's a PvP zone! An AoE party in the Abyss, given an entire room to themselves for any length of time, blows away any other party in any other zone with regards to exp/hour. It is these Abyss AoE parties that make people feel like solo isn't a viable choice.

Now, there are other factors to consider - yes, it's PvP, so you run the risk of being attacked there, and it is very popular, so you sometimes can't get a room or have to share one. However, PvP while grinding is very rare - none of my Abyss groups have ever been attacked by anyone. It happens, but it's not common.

I suppose my question is... was this intended? Giving people a faster way to level? You don't hear any complaining lately about exp rates post 60, now that there's Abyss zones. The exp rate in dungeons was increased too, giving 70+ another zone to grind in (Trumpy Remains). I agree with all this, and I agree that the Abyss should have an exp bonus, to offset the risk of fighting there. However, with the way the mobs are concentrated and weak there, it makes AoEing there almost too easy.

Changing the AoE spells to only affect the number of targets they say they affect would be one solution to this, although it would upset many AoE'rs. Another option would be to alter the Abyss maps, making mob density lower. Keep them weak, that is fine, but make it so it isn't so easy to gather 30 at once. I don't know if this is possible for the developer to do, though. Finally, and here's what I hope happens, introduce some new maps that give viable alternatives to the Abyss AoE group. Perhaps some solo-oriented maps with mobs that hit hard / special attacks but have low HP (difficult to AoE, but killable one on one). Or maps with mobs that are spaced out, like CP2 is now. Nobody goes there to AoE, but it's a good solo / duo zone.

Just a few thoughts from me... Again, I'm not saying anything needs to be changed. However, I feel it is kind of restricting to have one zone per level range be so much better for exp than the rest of the maps in the game. People should have choices on where to grind, and more places to explore is always a good thing as well. :)


That's my exact point. :) Also consider I'm a cleric so I get no area spells at all. So, I grind away 1 at a time as these parties are grabbing groups of 20-30.

Thinning the Abyss could be a good option. It does seem big enough to accomodate most people. Just hate to see it become an issue if gets too crowded.

I know every non-cleric will hate it, but I think the area spells should be adjusted(fixed). Perhaps a compromise to targetting 10-12 mobs, just not 30+. :)

[-Leona-]

Originally Posted by Aveta View Post
First of all, soloers should not be trying to train in the same area as aoe parties.

Think of it this way, you are one person, they are 5. Why should you, one person, get the same thing as 5 people. Oh no, the party of 5 is pulling a group of 15 monsters! I as a soloer can only handle 3. Thats not fair that I just get three and they get 15, even though it all works out the same in the end *emo*
eir cooper


ROFL, i can give u at least 2 examples of people that can aoe more monsters in solo than most parties >:]. Both me and seva can solo like crazy lol :P, we don't really need a party to get good xp ^^, but i do like partying myself is more fun :).

Just because u see a person soloing doesn't mean u have the right to barge in and act like the spot belongs to you, sure spot claiming is not allowed but just like you will not like if another guy comes soloing where u been grinding (and he starts pulling 10 mobs at a time) u shouldn't act like that yourself :). Is all a matter of common courtesy ^^ while spot claiming is wrong is all a matter of manners not to push out another party from the spot they were already grinding in :). If u consider is ok to push out a guy that is soloing than don't expect to be respected by others just because u have a 5 member party.

Respect is very fragile and if it's not 2 sided usually there is no respect.

[programmer579]

-.- I solo and pty ... and TBH i don't think it matters much =\ It's all ur personal preference ... oh and btw ... not every pty is fast -.-'

I actually don't have a solo ALL STR build, or a pty END/SPR build... I have spr/str/end ... and I do fine both in solo and pty ^^ XD it's all in the equips :D

A) Sometimes I solo just so I can be by myself without some idiot in my pty *cough* *NOTE: not referring to any of my friends =D but you all know that sometimes you get that one person in pty that messes it up -.-

B) Sometimes I pty so I can chat with friends and have some social-fun time =D

[k7leetha]

[...]nothing annoys me more than an AoE party that comes in and gathers up every single monster in an area that I'm soloing in. Even after asking them nicely to leave me some, they just don't care and continue to do it, forcing me to find another place to grind.

People that do that to me just get KS'd by me.

MMORPG's are just a video game, it's just pixels, HOWEVER ... there is a basic code of conduct (I prefer the term "respect") that one should play by, and 2 of them are don't hog, and don't ks.

If someone is 1v1-grinding in an area, and they're obviously there first, it's not cool to just start hogging up all the monsters, and neither should you ks any stacks of monsters on someone unless they ask for help.

The repercussions for violating this code of conduct, or my "respect," is that I no longer respect you and your right to be unbothered - therefore, since you have aggravated, interrupted, or in some other form *continuously and with purpose* disrupt my leveling I will simply allow you to take all the damage while I get free exp off your pain.

To put all that simply - don't ks, or you'll get ks'd back.

I'll be damned if I'm gonna move because of a bunch of retards don't have any understanding of civility.

[Cellbuster]

I don't think soloing is unbalanced. I think its a trade between fast exp, for all of the drops to yourself. I'm pretty much solo exclusive because i just have a hard time trusting others. (dont ask...)

Then again, i'm only lvl 40, i will see soon.

[Deedolith]

Mind you, I didn't read everything.

I find the game fine, either in soloing and party areas. Everyone can solo or party if they choose to.
Of course, partying have XP bonus, all MMOs that I know are like that, it is a way to promote but NOT FORCING party.

Now think about some other MMO where you're required to party because your class can't solo at all, not even a mob 10 lvls lower, and yuo'll find that Fiesta isn't that bad.

[hyutten]

Kage honestly, its pretty simple. If you stone like mad you can work as efficently as an aoe party does
Aoe parties simplify things, by giving u a specfic job and allowing you to interact with other people.
When you solo, you have to be the tank, DD, and healer all in one.
I solo alot, and I can still keep ahead of my friends that party alot, cause I don't stop and solo for like 6 hours, on weekends
Mmo's are designed for the interaction of people from other places, and to socialize online, so of course its battle mechanics would revolve around being a party. If you want to solo go ahead, theres not reason to rant about it :)

[Lubetek]

Ok so I'm a 65 cleric atm. I have an enhanced weapon, gears etc. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I can't even come close the the amount of xp I receive soloing versus even duoing. I have estimated I can get approximately 200k per hour solo in the abyss. With a decent duo partner I'm looking at 500k+ easily. There is absolutely no way I can compete with that. It absolutely can be frustrating at times.