Xen stone Market discussion thread

[bobalitos]

My take on the Xen issue. i am sick of trying to play the game and then DC all the time so i decided to talk about this. Warning, i am no expert in economics nor do i claim to be one. This post might bore someone to death so i am not responsible for any injury caused by boredom of reading this post. You have been warned. =P if you do decide to keep on reading it pls post a reply, i hope to know how people feel about teh solutions.

the scenario: (i was planning on showing a demand and supply graph for this but oh the laziness in me is just too much)


Recently there has been an incursion of new high level players. This is not a surprise considering the time that Beta has been Open <---o_0 (basically people have had enough time to get to their respective levels). Those who get AoE are, of couse, willing to use it to its full capacity so they can level at a faster rate than partying. Well, AoE requires a lot of defence in order to be able to mob the higher maps so these new high levelers are demanding Xen Stones in order to better their respective armors. Because more and more people are demanding Xen, the price of it goes up and the quantity of xens bought goes up as well. The supply of xens is perfectly inelastic due to the drop rate [this just means that no one can make Xen Stones so the supply just does not easily catch up with the quantity demanded]. This creates DEMAND PULL INFLATION. INflation means that the price levels are rising due to a shift in demand or a shift in supply.


Possible solutions- i have tried to come up with a at least three. (and ended up writing five XD)


first- increase the drop rate of Xen stones in order for the supply to meet the demand. im thinking maybe a five percent drop rate is good enough. maybe even less. This small quantity is to make sure that Xen Stones retain their "rare" status while increasing the quantity of it in the game. if you think about it, five percent is pretty good because for every 100 monsters, you can get 5 xens. Now for those high levels, how many monsters do you kill in a AoE mob? Now im thinking 5 percent maybe kind of high still. /hehe.

second- increase the drop rate for high AP armors and weapons. This will decrease the demand for Xen stones since the armors do not need further upgrading. Since less people are willing to buy Xens, the price will go down. Now i cant really think of a good percent drop for the armor and weapons but again, it should not have to take a high change in percentage. i dont have the answer to everything, you know. /winkwink.

Third- Good old laissez faire. Let it Be. Leave it alone and the market will fix itself. This is a Xen stone market where demand meets supply at an equilibrium. I have already observed a few of the stabilizers taking effect. For instance, the boycotting of Xen. ^^ People are realizing they are paying too much for xens so they just stop buying them (for the moment). This is a stabilizer because this boycott decreases the demand for Xen causing the price for it to go down EVENTUALLY. That is the only problem with letting it be. It takes some time for the market to fix itself and according to John Maynard Keynes, in the long run, were all dead, so we have to do something about this problem right now. well at least thats what my teacher always says, i dont know if Keynes really said it.

Fourth- i have read a suggestion to increase the chances of the Xen to succeed so it can actually be worth it and i think that is also a possible solution. Once again, i dont think that it should take too much of a change. Just give these Xen users a bit more of a fighting chance. Lmao-idk what exactly that meant ^^

Fifth- ok, bear with me. SOs can have an NPC sell 100% success rate Xens for a ridiculously high price of maybe ehh.. 3 mil krons maybe? or sparkcash it i guess. this will increase the supply of Xens which will decrease price levels for it.

But dont take my word for it, see for yourself how it is in game. For clarifications post here or for corrections in my logic or contradictions against my reasoning. I never get mad when people criticize me so feel free to do it. But seriously, dont just go THIS POST IS USELESS without giving explanation, thats what i care more about. I applaud you for reaching this far, i admit i get boring at times. =P

[bobalitos]

no replies, no votes :eek:

geez guys

[kanoona]

i think the drops are fine we shouldn't jst get them handed to us >.<
the enhancement needs to be fixed tho
and i think 3 is the best awnsere since its the community thats making them so high priced ^^

[bobalitos]

finally someone answers ^^

whew i was beginning to think that i typed all that for nothing :D

[notFire]

Personally, I dont expect to see much of a change in the price for a while. The demand is just too high, and IMO, no matter what kind of boycott people put on buying overpriced xens, if even a small percentage of the community keeps buying them at that price, people will continue selling them at that price.

So, I voted that your fourth option, to make the success rate higher, would be the best course of action. The problem is not the drop rate, there are plenty of xens in circulation. In fact, since I started AOEing, I've gotten one the last two days, which considering my luck before AOE, thats not all that bad.

But seriously, the Blacksmith is where the Xen problem lies. As I posted in another thread, I have had 14 out of 45 succeed for me, over the last few months (again, I keep a tally). 45 xens, maybe a third of them found, and I am but ONE user. There are tons of xens out there, but out of that lot, so few succeed, causing us to buy more, therefore making the price skyrocket.

Increasing the success rate, even by a few percent, would still mean a small percentage would succeed more often, therefore making the demand lower... if not only slightly.

The price may not drop by much, but it sure would alleviate some of the stress on the xen market.

Great post, btw, very well thought out.

[stevewins]

i think the drops are fine we shouldn't jst get them handed to us >.<
the enhancement needs to be fixed tho
and i think 3 is the best awnsere since its the community thats making them so high priced ^^

Sorry Fire, but I'll have to agree with Kanoona. It's the community that's making them so high priced. I mean what is the fun in getting then handed to us? or even if the drop rate is increased...that would just make more people wanna create mule characters and go out and round up Xen's to either sell them or make better armour. but if you think about it logically (not saying you didn't use any logic Fire), people want the Xen stones so bad. So if we all lower the prices of them wouldn't it make them more abundant? sure people wouldn't be making as much money, but if they are too over priced..doesn't that feel like it's making the Economy inflate? And Just the other night, I got a Xen stone from a mob where I was training with some people, and you know what I did with that Xen stone? I gave it away to another member who was really looking for a Xen stone. And I didn't even charge a single gold.

[duaane]

Well I was at lest one that said events for smelting (up to +5 {your xen 2 GM upgrade}).

I have also complained at that dumb wheel, chance fo 0 to +1 should be 100% (take the price of xen then 0 and +1 armor /any ap) you loss money enhansing to just +1.

+2 to +3 way easier: yes on test quest got +3 in one try, also used 12 xen, with my own lost 3 from +1 to +2 (got +3 first try) total 5 xen. So the weapon was worth 1.5 mill now worth 2.5 to 3 mill max cost 1.5 + (5 times say 750k). My money cost 3.75mill +1.5 I paid = 5.25 mil, for a 2.5-3.5 mil item?

So simple take out the random there cost 2 xen from +1 to +2, then again 1 xen for +3. so it 4.5 mil to get a 2.5 to 3mill Item.



Fourth- i have read a suggestion to increase the chances of the Xen to succeed so it can actually be worth it and i think that is also a possible solution. Once again, i dont think that it should take too much of a change. Just give these Xen users a bit more of a fighting chance. Lmao-idk what exactly that meant ^^ =P

Oh after +3 leave the wheel work as is. I do have a +5/ap4 sword, the cost in xen is riddiulus, and makes super stuff cost super moneys.

If the game wants make a 50% incressed enhancement SparkCash Item (like if my odds on a +4 to +5 is 24 to one lowers the odds to 12 to 1) etc.

As to drop rates, well they sux about one ever 10-16 hours of play. Lower in higher areas. needs some ballence, same with leather.... :cool:

As to AOE'ing it really needs to be faded out, and mobs/maps that players higher can get good xp for. Aoe'ing cause everyone else to have the sh*t monsters to kill (Aoe'ers only like the easiest and better drop rate monsters).
Really who wants to go kill some donkeys? same as if I attack a fairy it runs so should others If I am that much higher. Also the fact that Aoe'ers, have people stun, freeze all mob's they do not want, and leave junky mad monsters for lower class people to kill (***). Give them higher better monsters, and low if any drop rate from AOE'ing. That includes higher xp monsters, maps that drop leather/YW/Wood/Firewood, and yes more /AP armor.

Really I like this game would love to see it work for everyone :cool:

[ace7580]

im going with ap increase as in my lvl theres none as there rare and not many warriors out there..besides all the 6ap are taken..and 4ap's dont help as my old gears are better either way as there all +6/6ap gears..soo need 6ap gear increase even if its for a short period to obtain sum:Dlol

[kanoona]

Well I was at lest one that said events for smelting (up to +5 {your xen 2 GM upgrade}).

I have also complained at that dumb wheel, chance fo 0 to +1 should be 100% (take the price of xen then 0 and +1 armor /any ap) you loss money enhansing to just +1.

+2 to +3 way easier: yes on test quest got +3 in one try, also used 12 xen, with my own lost 3 from +1 to +2 (got +3 first try) total 5 xen. So the weapon was worth 1.5 mill now worth 2.5 to 3 mill max cost 1.5 + (5 times say 750k). My money cost 3.75mill +1.5 I paid = 5.25 mil, for a 2.5-3.5 mil item?

So simple take out the random there cost 2 xen from +1 to +2, then again 1 xen for +3. so it 4.5 mil to get a 2.5 to 3mill Item.




Oh after +3 leave the wheel work as is. I do have a +5/ap4 sword, the cost in xen is riddiulus, and makes super stuff cost super moneys.

If the game wants make a 50% incressed enhancement SparkCash Item (like if my odds on a +4 to +5 is 24 to one lowers the odds to 12 to 1) etc.

As to drop rates, well they sux about one ever 10-16 hours of play. Lower in higher areas. needs some ballence, same with leather.... :cool:

As to AOE'ing it really needs to be faded out, and mobs/maps that players higher can get good xp for. Aoe'ing cause everyone else to have the sh*t monsters to kill (Aoe'ers only like the easiest and better drop rate monsters).
Really who wants to go kill some donkeys? same as if I attack a fairy it runs so should others If I am that much higher. Also the fact that Aoe'ers, have people stun, freeze all mob's they do not want, and leave junky mad monsters for lower class people to kill (***). Give them higher better monsters, and low if any drop rate from AOE'ing. That includes higher xp monsters, maps that drop leather/YW/Wood/Firewood, and yes more /AP armor.

Really I like this game would love to see it work for everyone :cool:




um this is about xens not whining about aoers..and um why would they give them the skill if they can't use it >.>
we dnt get that great of xp from it
and its not like its jst like 3 people
we usualy have full parties and we leave a lot of monsters that give better xp...
have u even aoed b4?
or been in an aoe party?
and are u 80+ yet
when u are
i dnt wanna see u whining about exp...
cuz aoe is the only way to get any exp..
and as i said b4 dnt go trashing something unles u tried it
if u were around the whole aoe thing u would see
we all have found a balance to work things out....
and as for the +5 only as rewards
that is redic im srry
with luck u yourself could get it to +5
ahh im can't im done..

[ace7580]

if you drawn out aoeing you will see no high lvls on and by the time you hit the aoe high lvl duaane you will also quit as no exp or lack of i get 0.01 a kll now..you telling me thats worth killin solo 1 at a time rather than a bunch of em if so im not intrested and neither will other fellow aoers or ppl who join aoe partys:mad:

[hypersonic]

As to AOE'ing it really needs to be faded out, and mobs/maps that players higher can get good xp for.



i dnt wanna see u whining about exp...
cuz aoe is the only way to get any exp..


He did say give people better xp and mobs, not just that AoEing was bad >.>

You both have good points, its was only a suggestion so less flaming :D

[kanoona]

what he was saying they should fade out better mobs with better xp
at least thats what i thought

[Zeltar]

Firstly supply does increase, as more people do AOE, then more mobs will be killed, and so more xens become available.

Secondly the passing of second hand equipment sill reduce the need to enchant equipment. There is only a need to enchant so much now as there isn’t much second hand equipment available. Once the game matures and the number of people at a certain level remains constant then therte won’t be any need for new equipment, there will be just as many new people moving into that level rtange as people leaving the level range.

lol, 5%? I kill 50 mobs in an AOE load, that would make 2.5 xens per AOE load, they would become more common than trackers. To get a level you need to kill about 10,000. so that means you’d get 500 xens per level. What are you going to do after you upgrade your equipment to +6? Next step is +7, and you have a chance of the item breaking. That is not good. It is not expected that everyone can get the best

as for ap increase, who says that EVERYONE musty have 6ap? It seems like 90% of the high levels are all 6ap, now +1/4ap won’t even sell for 50k. there will also be even more 6ap coming onto the market as there are more people doing AOE, and also second hand equipment coming onto the market. If 6ap is as common as +1/0ap rthen it is not worth anything, everyone easily gets 6ap instead of making an economical decision between investing in 6ap or using a 4ap, the end result is everyone has 6ap and NPCs everything else, so, we all get better amour, we just made the game easier.

it is not essential for everyone to have +6/6ap equipment. It is natural that people need to work the econonomy to be able to obtain better equipment. It also causes cashflow in the economy. If we all could have everything served on a platter then it would take one aspect out of the game, and what else do we want to spend money on anyweay?

Finally the value of xen is much more, think about it, if it allows you to AOE the next area then you could get another 50-100k per hour, and a lot more exp. The return on investment is immense, so the value should match it. With that return on investment everyone would want to enhance their equipment as much as possible. The benefits of the extra 2 def IMO is worth more than 2mill (with good def you can make 2mill easily), so with 50% failure then that would make the xens return on investment to be well over 1m,ill. Therefore I would actually say that xens are underpriced at the moment, and worth a LOT more than the current market price.

[soluz]

...

basically...
i always sell xen stone at 800k-850k and it always sold out after i wake up from 5hr sleep...

anybody around me always sell at point 800k...and it always sold out...

if anyone selling xen stone less that 650k i will buy it for sure and resell it again
with price 800k-850k

someone sell xen stone at 700-750k ?
leave it...it only take less than 1hr before it sold out...

dont blame me...
blame the ppl who always buy xen stone at point 800k or more...

....
i saw somebody shouting....

"the drop rate increase why the price also increase?"

maybe she/he doesnt realize that the nunbers of high lvl player also increase...
is it mean if i said "wake up...just try to accept the reality..." ?

theres a few possibilities to decrease the price...
1.follow the instruction that wrote by bobalitos..
2.dont do aoe party or aoe solo ? this is totally impossible...
3.somebody have to stock up 80% xen in this game and re launch again with new price...but it is impossible...since the drop rate also increase...n u have to be very very very x10 rich person...

if i made any mistake...
just forgive me...

cuz i am just a xen merchant...
and i create living from it...

so basically it just like
supply and demand stuff...
and i aint shocked cuz this is not my 1st time having this kind of tragedy...
it always happen in other game when they have upgrading stone/stuff

u cant buy ap
but u can buy (+)



ciao~*

[ace7580]

i must say you seriously are not understanding why i dont need 4ap gears..my present 1s are far more powerfull than the new 4ap warrior gears why should i except lower stats gears wen i got good 1s i need new 6ap warrior gears not 4ap and then only will i move up in stats^^]

[ggBuRNe]

i must say you seriously are not understanding why i dont need 4ap gears..my present 1s are far more powerfull than the new 4ap warrior gears why should i except lower stats gears wen i got good 1s i need new 6ap warrior gears not 4ap and then only will i move up in stats^^]

yes we need 6 ap gear because our 2nd job gear is far better than 3rd job gear.. for example my +6 6ap shoes of the sun = +4 6ap shoes of water plant and the level needed to wear +4 6ap water plant is 104 which is high..

However, if a person cannot afford 6ap or unable to find it, 4 ap is the best to go..

[duaane]

Close: I said "and mobs/maps that players higher can get good xp for" :rolleyes: Also "That includes higher xp monsters, maps that drop should have leather/YW/Wood/Firewood, and yes more /AP armor" ;) Now higher xp monsters that drop leather etc. would be hard for under lvl 70-80 to kill at all.:)

Main quote "Really I like this game would love to see it work for everyone".:cool:

what he was saying they should fade out better mobs with better xp
at least thats what i thought :confused:

Sorry I was vauge, I was trying to be concise, as the main point was xen stones, and added the last paragraph, for thought.

I think other thing like leather wood etc, should be included in higher lvl area maps/monsters. My Aco does work AOE'ing. My other two well squire at lest is close. I sure do not mean "fade out better mobs with better xp" the opposite more need to be in game for new higher players, as well as drops for pets etc. as a higher player may want one, and where can they get the pet supplies with-out starting a new charactor :confused:

Sorry All, I did write a long page on "XEN" did not mean to twist this off on another direction. Only replied here as I seemed to have been mis-understood :cool:

[kanoona]

xD okay lol
i get were your coming from now ;D

[Soulcard]

I wonder how we will do it after hit 101... u cant aoe without binders anymore.

with 103-105 you cant caus they are running it u hit them

and over that i dunno

ranged ppl can comepnsate that maybe but where will that lead to ?

I dunno and i stop at lvl 100 now just to see where it goes xD

Maybe im going to do something else.

and yeah the xens are going to loose a bit of importance for me know since there might be no more aoe....... maybe that will drop the price a bit

but what do i know

ADD A MAP TO AOE OVER 101 AND IT WILL BE OCCUPIED ALL DAY LMAO

punished and forced to party = may be the future


kinda sad for solo ppl (except ranged ones of course )

maybe i should start a scout just in case

[Soulcard]

I wonder how we will do it after hit 101... u cant aoe without binders anymore.

with 103-105 you cant caus they are running it u hit them

and over that i dunno

ranged ppl can comepnsate that maybe but where will that lead to ?

I dunno and i stop at lvl 100 now just to see where it goes xD

Maybe im going to do something else.

and yeah the xens are going to loose a bit of importance for me know since there might be no more aoe....... maybe that will drop the price a bit

but what do i know

ADD A MAP TO AOE OVER 101 AND IT WILL BE OCCUPIED ALL DAY LMAO

punished and forced to party = may be the future


kinda sad for solo ppl (except ranged ones of course )

maybe i should start a scout just in case

[kanoona]

hahaha fight double post ftl
and u know there will be more maps eventualy
zoombie hands =D

[bobalitos]

hehe while reading his post i was like "DEJA VU"
waa


anyways thnx for expressing comments guys :D

[Kendrah]

Firstly supply does increase, as more people do AOE, then more mobs will be killed, and so more xens become available.

Well, this is true only to a point, Zeltar. I have only found 5 Xen. I can't bank on finding more. And as more people AOE and thus find more Xen, who is to say those Xen will be put into my needy hands? High lvl's tend to keep said Xen instead of sell them.

As such, there *might* be one less person wanting Xen for a day/ half a day/ an hour, but the number of up and comers that need Xen still increase with the same low drop rate combined with all the other high lvls that don't get Xen drops, regardless of how any mobs they kill in an AOE. The result is that the price is still driven skyward.

[bobalitos]

also when u aoe the mobs are blue right? :D


as the lower lvl aco in a aoe party most aoers tell me that they get the Xen and i get Ywms :cool:

[landy123007]

if u think the game as a perfectly competitive market, which it is, xen is a normal good, the only way to drop its price is to : 1. increase the supply 2. decrease the demand.

1. can be solved by increasing the drop rates and selling in casher like 1 and 5 said proposed by bobalitos

2. can be solved by decreasing the income (make kron hard to find), find an alternate goods, lower the interest (increase enhance rate)

And since theres no ingame kron circulation, the income of each individual is increasing steadily, therefore xen's price is increasing in a uplifting slope and won't reach its equalibirium until something major is changed.

[Zeltar]

yes, it is a competitive market, the thing is there is little circulation, as there is nothing to spend the money on. so many people have 10+mill kron. as people level it is easier to earn money, getting a mill every 4-5hrs purely from NPC drops. and where should this money go?
well there is only one thing worth spending money on after purchasing 6ap equip, it's xen stones.
Players do not purchase much from the NPC, and mainly purchase expensive items from other players, but we get lots of money from the NPCs then there is a steady flow of kron from NPC to the players, and none going back, meaning that more money is stockpiling, and so driving inflation. therefore with peoples cash supply increasing, and more money coming onto the market then the price of xen will naturally increase.
it is the same as in real world if everyone could print their own money, then there would be massive inflation. that's why the world bank does not print that much money, as by doing it will make the value of money go down and drive inflation.

the only way to stop inflation is if the amount of money flowing from NPC to players would balance the money flowing from players to NPC.

also currently the only luxury good worth buying is xen stones, so naturally they take the brunt of the inflation.

on another note, what's the big deal about high xen prices? the people doing AOE will be earning massive amounts of money from the NPCs. it's not such a big deal. but then for the lucky lvl 20, they just got a mighty 800k drop, that just made their day! since everyone can get xen stones, and only the high level really need them, then it works as a means of recirculation the kron in the economy, taking from the richer higher levels and giving to the poorer.

so in the end, yes personally i would love to have xen stones for 500k, but looking at the economical forces behind it it is only natural what is happening. and inflation will continue, so unless something is done about the inflation(make some more money flow from players back to NPC to balance the economy) then the price of xen stones will continue to increase. in the end i wouldn’t be surprised if xen stones go over 2mill by the end of the year.

The fact is that the economic model needs xen prices to perpetually rise in order to keep balance. The solution is for outspark to make more worthwhile expensive goods purchasable from the NPC to balance out the inflation, and make more different luxury goods, so xen are not the only luxury good worth having, so balance out the demand.

[duaane]

Here we definately agree :)

Like one higher potions same weight, but cost goes up (see cash shop keeps the 0 weight), So and Aco or Neo and others, can carry enough low pot 50, mediam 100, large 300, maybe an extra large (both HP an MP) charge more for them in general store i.e. 50's 500 kron, 100's 1.5k, 300's 5k. or some such.


The solution is for outspark to make more worthwhile expensive goods purchasable from the NPC to balance out the inflation, and make more different luxury goods, so xen are not the only luxury good worth having, so balance out the demand.

Also interesting luxury goods ;)

Butter 40k

Leather for 250k

YW 150k

xen stones for 600k

etc.... (think that leaves room for player sellers, and stops the need for too many problems) :cool:

[Necronomicron]

once i bought xen for 250 kron D; cry cry

[I_have_no_shoes]

if u think the game as a perfectly competitive market, which it is, xen is a normal good, the only way to drop its price is to

Lol, there is no such thing as a perfectly competitive market. A perfectly competitive market is something that you read about in textbooks and hear from college professors, but never actually observe.

In real life, markets are irrational because it is determined greed and fear - like it is here :D .

[Zeltar]

Here we definately agree :)

Like one higher potions same weight, but cost goes up (see cash shop keeps the 0 weight), So and Aco or Neo and others, can carry enough low pot 50, mediam 100, large 300, maybe an extra large (both HP an MP) charge more for them in general store i.e. 50's 500 kron, 100's 1.5k, 300's 5k. or some such.



Also interesting luxury goods ;)

Butter 40k

Leather for 250k

YW 150k

xen stones for 600k

etc.... (think that leaves room for player sellers, and stops the need for too many problems) :cool:

What interesting luxury goods?

Butter, 40k? you’re joking, it’s not worth that much. Only really good for pet quest. Yeah food is good healing, good for PvP, but then many people use spark cash potions. The demand for food is very limited to people going into PvP, and it’s relatively cheap. I have 13mil of fruit, I don’t need any more, and wouldent consider it a worthwhile luxury good.

Leather: well it’s only useful for the pet quest, once people have passed that stage of the pet quest it’s useless for them

YWM: poyos are useless, and the new pets are better. This is just for people that can’t be bothered to do the long pet quest. For me YWM is just a nice side income when I do AOE.

Xen stones: the only item worth buying for a high level player. With many high levels having 10-50 mill in the bank, and a steady income from NPCs the cost of xen stones is small (even 800k isn’t that much). It is the only item that can be used to further advance your character, so might aswell get an extra 2 def/attack, much better than sitting on that money just looking at it.

So it seems like there is only 1 worthwhile luxury good that is always valuable. Hence the full effect of inflation goes straight to the only worthwhile luxury good. this will still be the case, even if there was a xen increase, unless the increase became so significant that xens became common, meaning that you could easily max out the enhancements, then there is not a single luxury good worth buying, so high lvl people just start hoarding more and more money. this would actually make inflation much worse.

[DBL_RE]

Just remember,higher price in xen stones means cost of selling weapons at a higher cost too.When my scout is done with his +4 6ap markman,I am going to ask for more then 7 million.Since it cost me alot of stones to make it,why should I be screwed.Just like the cost of gas in the u.s.

[duaane]

Again I would buy the bigger potions so would many. Just to have enough to do missions like Mines, etc..
Xen stones well let see 2 with one sucess and one loss of a enhancement = zero worth (from +4 to +5 leaving me with a +3) and a SOL from Hal (CR/CS).

General store sales would help stablize the xen market.

What interesting luxury goods?
you’re joking

The pet items I just put in as a few over priced items that are not avalable to higher level players (oh I lied I got a YW last week in 50-60 hunting area).

As with xen stones (I would give a real worth of 300-400k) I gave store prices on some of the other items that are inflating. Why so players could have room for selling. Not that I think any are worth the price I stated. The store would act as a cap on an item (why but from you if I can get from the store for (xxx you but in the price).

Not sure what I did to offend you. I* am not making policy, I am trying to find ideas that may help the game.

Rather than mock me "Please" come up with what you think would be good "luxury goods" that the game may adopt, or think about.

Or do you think the game will offer /ap armor, or items to help level. making current items worthless (whom would buy a /ap2 or 4, if store sold /6's?).

I am knocking you this time, you love to tell people what not to say or do, yet have no real ideas yourself. If you do please voice them, let me hear what will help, not hurt... (sorry not your style you are more the knock a person, and be mean at lest as far as I can tell) :p

[Minryu]

I've been getting a lot of Xens lately from my AoEs. My fifth one I got today; 1 earlier and 2 from the same mob. :p

Guess I should start AoEing a lot more, eh?

[Zeltar]

Again I would buy the bigger potions so would many. Just to have enough to do missions like Mines, etc..
Xen stones well let see 2 with one sucess and one loss of a enhancement = zero worth (from +4 to +5 leaving me with a +3) and a SOL from Hal (CR/CS).

General store sales would help stablize the xen market.



The pet items I just put in as a few over priced items that are not avalable to higher level players (oh I lied I got a YW last week in 50-60 hunting area).

As with xen stones (I would give a real worth of 300-400k) I gave store prices on some of the other items that are inflating. Why so players could have room for selling. Not that I think any are worth the price I stated. The store would act as a cap on an item (why but from you if I can get from the store for (xxx you but in the price).

Not sure what I did to offend you. I* am not making policy, I am trying to find ideas that may help the game.

Rather than mock me "Please" come up with what you think would be good "luxury goods" that the game may adopt, or think about.

Or do you think the game will offer /ap armor, or items to help level. making current items worthless (whom would buy a /ap2 or 4, if store sold /6's?).

I am knocking you this time, you love to tell people what not to say or do, yet have no real ideas yourself. If you do please voice them, let me hear what will help, not hurt... (sorry not your style you are more the knock a person, and be mean at lest as far as I can tell) :p

Lol, you never offended me or anything. My apologies if I gave you that impression
I just state what’s on my mind with no reservations. I state my thoughts on whatever people post, irrelevant of who posts it. I have a decent understanding of economical factors in a market place environment, and was stating that this is exactly what I would have expected from this market place economy.

As for my thoughts on the issue, I posted them in post 13 of this thread, saying that what is happening to xen prices is standard economics. And then posted my suggested solution in post 30, that there is inflation in the market as more money enters the market than leaves the market and there is nothing to spend money on, therefore we need more expensive goods to purchase FROM npc’s to reduce the flow of money into the market and so reduce inflation. And that we also need more worthwhile luxury goods so that xen stones are not the only thing worth spending money on(after people have already baught 6ap and pet quest items), and so reduce the demand for xen stones.

As for your coment about going to +5, well that takes on average 6 xen stones to get from +4 to +5. as a failure(50%) will bring you to +3, but failure of +3 does not go down, so 3 xen stones to bet back to +4. therefore 50% chance of needing 1 xen, and 50% chance of needing 3 xen to have no effect, and then you’re back in the starting position. This becomes a sum of infinite series, case of 50%+ 25%+ 12.5%+7.25% etc. when you sum the infinite series of probability and cost and you will result in 4 xen on average for +4 to +5. the same principle can be applied for the jump from +5 to +6, with statistically average cost of 6 extra xen.

Therefore people will make the move from +4 to +5 when the return on investment is worth 4 xen for that extra defence (I see some people with everything +5/6ap, so it’s obviously worth it for them).

The same applies to moving from +5 to +6. now if xen stones were common, let’s take an extreme situation to highlight the effect, say xen stones only cost 100k. then everyone would make +5 and +6 items. People always want something to improve with their stock of resources, now there is nothing more to spend money on, except improving from +6 to +7, with a 50% chance of failure resulting in your item breaking. That means that the cost of failure is the cost of an item breaking, which is very harsh (origional +1/6ap and on average 16 xen).

Anyway, in the end, we need to have more luxury goods that will be always useful for everyone (quest items are useless after you’ve done the quest), and also need to have money flowing from players back to the NPC, so to stop the endless stockpile of money in the economy which is driving massive inflation.

[Eitaro]

Excellent post Zeltar! I'm glad there are people in the game who understand market economics, money flow, and inflation. Also your analysis of xen stones required to go from +4 and above is quite insightful. Although I always suspected it to be something like that, I never thought about it in depth. It's true people who already have all their AP gear and quests done have nothing to spend their money on, so there need to be other luxury goods available in the game to curb the inflation. Putting a monetary cap on Xen and other goods by having them available from NPC is not a solution unless inflation is curbed because it will only drive up the average material wealth in the long run (everyone will have all +6/6ap gears eventually).

Just for example sake, your average player may have say... 5mil kron today, but 2-3 months from now, an average player will have perhaps 7-8mil kron. Extrapolate that out to a longer period and you can see where it leads.

[Blazinice]

About the Xen Boycott thing... it worked for all of about two weeks, maybe a month. Then it failed. Like mad. 900k again 0_0

The best you can find is 800k...

[thrakx]

dude your second option is not very good. Even if the drop rates of Ap+ aromor increased, you still need that +1,2,3,4,5 ect, and that requires xenning. You might get a +1/6ap helm but thats the middle of the road especially if you are trying to AOE.

[bobalitos]

yea that was back when i didnt know that xen increases the plus and not the ap number :D

apologies.

[Kendrah]

I've been getting a lot of Xens lately from my AoEs. My fifth one I got today; 1 earlier and 2 from the same mob. :p

Guess I should start AoEing a lot more, eh?

O.o I gotta start partying with you more. ;)

[bobalitos]

minryu is gone for now XD

[shade_13]

I think dat 2 would b da best cause people need armor 2 b lvled up and if day find it easyer dan da xen, no more week long searches 4 xen. watch da pices plumet | |
\__/http://http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/freakyjohn101/grim_reaper.jpg

[LoLiLoKoKo]

I think if we just leave it be supply may meet demand but 5% drop rate would be insanely high i gained 3 lvls yesterday 53-56 and at an average of .25 a kill thats 400 monsters a lvl
60 xens in 1 day seems kinda high,i think 0.5 or little less then 1% might still even be better then what its currently at now =X

[CyberPhoenixSlayer]

Ok, let me analyse all this:
1:Increasing drop rate of Xen? bad idea, they are already drop a lot already, got one each day.
2:Xen Failure? I can say one thing, my Armor of Galaxy broke when i try to xen it at +6/ap6 only, so a little increase of success rate can do the job.
3:Grinding monster one by one? For low and mid-level ups, very easy to get good exp, but wat about high and master-level up(100+ for master-level up), no joke, but exp is creepy low without a booster of 100%, even with a 100% exp boost, that still too low.
4:Price of Xen? Sorry to tell you this, but 700K+ is overpriced. I see so many People have like 25-30 Xen Stone to sell sometimes for like 900K-1.5mil each. Even one time i see one with 124 Xen Stones in sell for 1.1 mil each earlier(don't ask me how he get all these Xen Stones)Real Price of a Xen Stone: still 500Kmin-700Kmax for my opinion.(Red Demon Blood:250Kmin-500Kmax)
5:Xening gears:+5 is sufficent to upgrade for now since the Xens failed a little too much for some at +5 and more.
and 6:Raising drop of ap gears? you joking?, i got some gear with ap at each
50-100 monsters i kill, so don't see the neccessity to increase the drop rate of this.

Three solutions:
1:Put back the price of Xen to normal(500-700K)
2:Increase a bit the Xen Success on a gear
3: (if 1 is not the best solution) Make the drop rate of Xen Stone extremely low, so now the Xen value can be 1 mil kron

well that's my opinion, hope to find a Galaxy Armor +5/ap6 so i can retrain again my Templar:(

My Character Names:
CyberClyde: LV8X Templar(In vacation while he search for a new armor of galaxy +5 ap6><)
CyberSlayer: LV5X Squire(Didn't die one time since i create this file)
CyberPhoenix: LV2X Apprentice(Get bored to train him, ima delete it soon)

[bobalitos]

1:Increasing drop rate of Xen? bad idea, they are already drop a lot already, got one each day.



muwahaha how about now, given the current situation???