about blacklisting, too little too late

[joecracker]

you guys allowed so much of this to happen on forum and didnt care, so now you say it stops now

well to me thats a little too late

"We have been seeing more and more threads across the forums accusing other players by name of leeching, KSing, etc. This must stop.

Basically, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, we will not allow the “blacklisting” of anyone – that is, to identify by name an individual or group (guild) via accusation. This also goes hand in hand with the Terms of Service agreed upon by everyone here upon account creation.

Specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Terms of Service”
e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.
If this or any article of the Terms of Service seems unfamiliar to you I strongly encourage you to take the time to click the link above and read the TOS. If anything, pay particular attention to articles A-Y as they will always pertain to both in-game activities as well as activities on these forums. Print them out, pin them to the wall beside you, learn them… violations of the TOS are not taken lightly by any means and failure to comprehend or ignorance of the established rules is not an excuse to commit said violations."


how much of that did myself and a few of my guild mate and guild go threw and nothing was done, over and overm sure we said some things back, but if u saw how much we had to take, and yet nothing

so like i said too little too late

[Kieng]

Later is better than never.

[Serric]

I am sorry if you feel that way. I know I, personally, have been trying to locate, remove and advise persons who fall under this category evry time I see them. I know other CLs have been as well but we can't catch all of them the instant they appear. This is why we are asking for your help in bringing it to a close.

And you say nothing was done. If a report was forwarded to me I can assure you firsthand it was sent through the proper channels and infractions were issued, depending on what the GMs and/or CSRs investigations revealed.

It actually upsets me when people fail to read the rules and then wonder why they have been penalized. I am hoping by making this announcement more and more users will understand and take proper steps when reporting as opposed to what has been done in the past. I can't do anything about what has been done, just what is to come.

[joecracker]

if you ever vied teva gen chat or teva guild u would have saw this first hand going on

there is enough cl's to have at least one of you to check from time to time

you all cant turn a blind eye to that, and for u all to say u didnt know what was going on i would call that a lie, i am sorry, but thats how i feel, we shouldnt have to waste time reporting stuff, and you guys letting posts go far as to this

see, i am very mad, because this was known going on on the forums posting, yet nothing was done time after time, why should waste time when nothing was done in the past about it, keep on beating a horse that wont do anything? i think not

see thats the thing, it went on way too long for now just to go this way, like i said too little too late

[Cha0sTribe]

Well obviously some people didn't read TOS thoroughly. They NEED to read them...

Why people want to blacklist a person, by exposing his/her name at the public?

1) They want to humiliate this person to the point that he/she couldn't defend her/himself
2) They want to destroy this person's reputation
3) They want this person to receive the highest/severe punishment ever; permanent account ban
4) They THINK that GM's taking too long to excecute the punishment. So they taking the shortest route, by exposing their names on the forum and let the viewers become a "Judge" and "Punish" this person.

Do you think this person deserve the punishment? YES
Do you think they using the right channel to punish this person? NO

Its like a pickpocket get caught by people, they beat a hell out of him 1st before sending a half-dead body to the nearby police station...

Justice is served, according to them...

[Kieng]

Well, the only reason why I would ever do it is to warn others about so and so.

[joecracker]

a lot of this has gone on thou, and to now just call it harrassment, thats the thing, i wont talk anymore about that cause i will just get more angry that nothing was done when they knew what was going on time and time again on froums about people posting things like said in the post from serric about this


also on leeching, there is nothing against the rules about it, for 1 the leecher makes it so the others are getting more exp per kill in the first part, for 2 does not effect anyone else but the person leeching, and 3 there are people who would jump on someone for having to go afk, yet thats not harrasment when they call out nasrty things to them, of course wont help again a lot, also happened people called sopmeon a leeching that was fighting the boss yet called leecher, like i said there is nothing agaisnt anything for leeching, esp if u talk about KKP, which is easy to duo let alone kill, and people would only harrass mainly the guild i am in over and over on forums and in game, yet noehting was done, so dont give me this u knew nothing about it on the forums

[KireiYosei]

Yup, I'm going to have to ask if you've found a thread that is like this, to please PM the link to one of the CLs so we can check it out. There's a lot of sections and threads, we try to cover as much as we can, but we're only multi-tasking humans.

[joecracker]

thats not the point, it was known what was going on, they got closed and closed time after time, so to turn a blind eye to it, to come back and now say from this point on thing, thats what makes it too little too late, shows only care about certain people not all

sorry but that is my view of what went on in the forums, if u deny it happened that way, i feel sorry for you that you didnt get to see it thinking i am blowing smoke out my rear!

[Mr._Strife]

lol tehe rofl lmao... i think tahts all of them

[Instant-Noodlez]

Just reading that quote from the ToS now... does this potentially mean that spamming someone for a buff, can be seen as harassment? :D

[smitske]

you guys allowed so much of this to happen on forum and didnt care, so now you say it stops now

well to me thats a little too late

"We have been seeing more and more threads across the forums accusing other players by name of leeching, KSing, etc. This must stop.

Basically, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, we will not allow the “blacklisting” of anyone – that is, to identify by name an individual or group (guild) via accusation. This also goes hand in hand with the Terms of Service agreed upon by everyone here upon account creation.

Specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Terms of Service”
e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.
If this or any article of the Terms of Service seems unfamiliar to you I strongly encourage you to take the time to click the link above and read the TOS. If anything, pay particular attention to articles A-Y as they will always pertain to both in-game activities as well as activities on these forums. Print them out, pin them to the wall beside you, learn them… violations of the TOS are not taken lightly by any means and failure to comprehend or ignorance of the established rules is not an excuse to commit said violations."


how much of that did myself and a few of my guild mate and guild go threw and nothing was done, over and overm sure we said some things back, but if u saw how much we had to take, and yet nothing

so like i said too little too late

did they say so, hmmm might be because of recent events.

But 1 thing, if they dont do a thing about botters and hackers an,d so on, then I find the community should know and determine for itself if its a botter.


And serric maybe some fail to notice why they are penalised cause even though they broke the rules, it was just cause the Gm's didnt take action

Then you need to report those things to a CL also if there's something wrong with it, or do a lot wrong and hteyll follow your every move.

[Serric]

This isn't about botters and spammers. This is about blacklisting and no, it is not okay to list names of suspected bots.

However, and for your information, I have received word from Nei that a bot report which was forwarded to me (and I in turn forwarded to Nei) resulted in not only the capture of those two bots but 8 others across the 4 servers. GLs are doing their job, and bot hunting IS their job...

As for the previous argument, what has happened in the past cannot be undone, but we can make a change starting now.

[Angelxx]

also on leeching, there is nothing against the rules about it, for 1 the leecher makes it so the others are getting more exp per kill in the first part, for 2 does not effect anyone else but the person leeching, and 3 there are people who would jump on someone for having to go afk, yet thats not harrasment when they call out nasrty things to them, of course wont help again a lot, also happened people called sopmeon a leeching that was fighting the boss yet called leecher, like i said there is nothing agaisnt anything for leeching, esp if u talk about KKP, which is easy to duo let alone kill, and people would only harrass mainly the guild i am in over and over on forums and in game, yet noehting was done, so dont give me this u knew nothing about it on the forums

LOL? A leecher AFFECTS the entire kq. For one, a leecher is depriving someone who will actively contribute to the kills of a spot in the kq. 2, per exp per kill but more time taken. The more time is taken, the higher the chances of people dying, etc. Imagine a kq with no one but leechers...tell me again that it does not affect the kq. :rolleyes:

The only person who would think a leecher isn't affecting the kq would be the leecher himself.

[KateeHellen]

First of all we are all HUMANS not prescripted NPC's and we all acting under presure of emotions<especially when someone KS, train us or make anything what remove any fun from play>.
I have habbit<i dont known if good or bad;)> just move forward when i fall victim of such acting, but many players dont and thats why we come to core of this thread.
Right now many people<atleast those who visit forums>have seen that many reports of any kind of "disorderly conduct" in game goes unpunished< what is false by the way because i known that soon or later they will recive thier punishment(beside in sytuation when GMs recive thousand PMs they need time to sort them and filter important PMs)> so they may undertake assumption that best way to "serving justice" IS post on forum.
I am not in the position to jugde anyone if he/she do right thing, however sometimes such posts are help to avoid some unplesant "suprises"<scamming> but i observed how many threads starting whit absuolutely good intentions turned in flame war thread because of emotional asspect of subiect.
Blacklisting is wrong and unacceptable but let us be honest many threads witch can be interpreted as blacklisting have solid base and whit all due respect only ignorant will say otherwise.
However i can only suggest if someone are not sure if his/her PM about missbehavior will not reach GMs direct then send PM to CLs and they will for sure forwarded them to GMs directly.
To end one last comment.
Leeching in KQ... i known that this is not violation but its unfair behavior thorwards rest of KQ participants because rest of the group burn ther stones/pots<so they accualy earn ther XP and taste of victory(or defeat)> but person who shroom right after start of KQ get final XP for free<by the way leecher dont recive party XP from killed mobs because of Party XP Range Border...(if portraits in party block goes inactive member of party recive full XP as he/she will work solo but rigt after portraits becomes active again XP is divided to all party members however i am not sure if this work in KQ too)>.
If you need to go AFK then dont register to KQ because you block possibility fro others to participate<beside that is really odd if right after KQ start someone shroom and go afk...> and like Angelxx say leeching can have demoralizing effect at any KQ<"Why i should risk my hears/stones/pots when i can shroom in safe zone and grab 30kXP for free?"> thats why leeching should not be treat as something what we can accept as part of game.
Alright... i end my rant< i am not sure if what i post have any sense:o so i appologize> and can only appeal.
Less emotions More facts...

[joecracker]

yes serric u guys cant un doe the past, and thats another thing, this game, i dont care what said, some people seem to be above rules and when they break them nothing happens, can report people who train and ks, with video and SS, yet nothing happens to them, maybe i should have posted the info on the forums, as i was tempted to when nothing was happnening, but i didint, yet when things said on forum and things about me and my fellow players in guild i am in, nothing happens, time and time again, we have been harrassed on forums, yet nothign, but now it a problem so new rule, like i said, TOO LITTLE TOO LATE, i find this thing to be a joke, i dont care how people view me on this, but thats how i feel,

[Kaiza]

you guys allowed so much of this to happen on forum and didnt care, so now you say it stops now

well to me thats a little too late

"We have been seeing more and more threads across the forums accusing other players by name of leeching, KSing, etc. This must stop.

Basically, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, we will not allow the “blacklisting” of anyone – that is, to identify by name an individual or group (guild) via accusation. This also goes hand in hand with the Terms of Service agreed upon by everyone here upon account creation.

Specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ”Terms of Service”
e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.
If this or any article of the Terms of Service seems unfamiliar to you I strongly encourage you to take the time to click the link above and read the TOS. If anything, pay particular attention to articles A-Y as they will always pertain to both in-game activities as well as activities on these forums. Print them out, pin them to the wall beside you, learn them… violations of the TOS are not taken lightly by any means and failure to comprehend or ignorance of the established rules is not an excuse to commit said violations."


how much of that did myself and a few of my guild mate and guild go threw and nothing was done, over and overm sure we said some things back, but if u saw how much we had to take, and yet nothing

so like i said too little too late

Honestly I feel sometimes the same. I get called very often as greedy Ba***ard [Censored by myself] or Scammer. It really annoy because I dont scam neither being greedy.

[Angelxx]

I find it ironic that people complain when nothing is done but when something is done they complain it is done too late.

How about 'Better Late Than Never'?

[The-Sakura]

It takes time to get these things done.

They tried warning people as the threads came up, now they finally made a mass annocement.

Stop giving them a hard time.

[Siond]

i understand what ur saying, but there is no need to be rude to the CL. There is so much posted everyday and it is hard to go through all the posts. and um no offense but it is just a game. nothing is never too late

[angelswings]

I wholeheartedly agree with angel. I wont party anyone that isn't doing their part in KQ or any other party. Let them die, they deserve it. I find it funny/sad that people knowingly disturb game play then try to hide behind the rules when someone calls them out on it. This isn't meant for anyone specifically so noone needs to take it personal as I am not naming names.

AND I think Sakura is squishy

[smitske]

This isn't about botters and spammers. This is about blacklisting and no, it is not okay to list names of suspected bots.

However, and for your information, I have received word from Nei that a bot report which was forwarded to me (and I in turn forwarded to Nei) resulted in not only the capture of those two bots but 8 others across the 4 servers. GLs are doing their job, and bot hunting IS their job...

As for the previous argument, what has happened in the past cannot be undone, but we can make a change starting now.

I hunt bots, scammers and more to, the only thing is when I report they didnt do a thing about it ><

Then I feel like at least the palyers of our server deserve to kno its a bot, else my hunt was for nothing

[Serric]

I hunt bots, scammers and more to, the only thing is when I report they didnt do a thing about it ><

Then I feel like at least the palyers of our server deserve to kno its a bot, else my hunt was for nothing

Send your reports with SS to me. I have a "secret weapon" which has proven useful and effective....

[smitske]

can you look in the special area?
all the things or in there if they didnt deleted it yet, thread name is the bot of apoline.

[Jhanniss]

I hunt bots, scammers and more to, the only thing is when I report they didnt do a thing about it ><

Then I feel like at least the palyers of our server deserve to kno its a bot, else my hunt was for nothing

It's been a mixed bag in my reports to Dakkon in the past when I use to do such. Sometimes the GMs will let you know it has been addressed and handled, and other times you never really know unless you see the reported people again or not. :(

[smitske]

No offense to dakkon, but onlyone ever said anything about it to me was snake and I saw the person using a bot again so thats why I know they didnt do a thing about the person ><

and why I posted a blacklisting topic about it cause it happened 2-4 months ago

[TheCentrix]

I dont really know about the other CL's, but I often get PM's from people that report wrong threads for me to review.

I am glad that atleast some people take their 1 minute time to PM one of the CL's and help keep the forums cleaner.


if you ever vied teva gen chat or teva guild u would have saw this first hand going on

there is enough cl's to have at least one of you to check from time to time

you all cant turn a blind eye to that, and for u all to say u didnt know what was going on i would call that a lie, i am sorry, but thats how i feel, we shouldnt have to waste time reporting stuff, and you guys letting posts go far as to this

see, i am very mad, because this was known going on on the forums posting, yet nothing was done time after time, why should waste time when nothing was done in the past about it, keep on beating a horse that wont do anything? i think not

see thats the thing, it went on way too long for now just to go this way, like i said too little too late

Please understand that being CL isnt a fulltime job, but something we do in our spare time after school/work and have other things to do as well :)

We simply can't review every single thread within a few minutes after it has been created.

I once had a section, no bad threads at all. I left for a few hours and when I came back I saw a PM that has been sent to me about 10-15 minutes after I checked that same section reporting a bad thread.

Luckily an other CL already deleted it though ^^

[Serric]

Also, this just in: The CSRs and GMs now have a collective PM box. This means all in-game and account issues should be pm'd to Fiesta_Help. Incoming reports will be divided amongst the appropriate personnel.

Forum-specific issues, however, still come to CLs.

[smitske]

so we canr Pm a Gm/CSr personally anymore?

[KireiYosei]

You can, but PMing that name can increase your chances of getting a reply. I only suggest PMing a GM if you have an issue for that specific GM.

[smitske]

well its just that i like pm'ing a specific Gm cause that 1 atleast givs responses

[RikoRain]

~.~ Funny thing is you quot ethat from the TOS, and harassment is listed in there.

Now when I get harassed (or threatened in the game-- sometimes ppl even threaten to end my IRL LIFE) and I report it.. I either:
Get no response
Get a "we dont deal with personal vendettas" reply
Get a "Im sorry, this person has broken no rules"


-_- Ive lost all faith in ever reporting anything. Nothing is ever done. I have peopel shroom kill me for no reason, train on me, KS, threaten, harass, continually war, curse, cyber.. all sorts of things, and nothign gets done T.T

[Angelxx]

~.~ Funny thing is you quot ethat from the TOS, and harassment is listed in there.

Now when I get harassed (or threatened in the game-- sometimes ppl even threaten to end my IRL LIFE) and I report it.. I either:
Get no response
Get a "we dont deal with personal vendettas" reply
Get a "Im sorry, this person has broken no rules"


-_- Ive lost all faith in ever reporting anything. Nothing is ever done. I have peopel shroom kill me for no reason, train on me, KS, threaten, harass, continually war, curse, cyber.. all sorts of things, and nothign gets done T.T

Well I can tell you for sure it is not true nothing is done. Sometimes perhaps you don't realise something has been done or it isn't done to your satisfaction.

I have reported several times and mostly something is done about it although not always.

[smitske]

ive reported about 2 major things that I found really important, and some less important things.

and Both of the 2 major things didnt really help, 1 of them I got a breaktrough cause the person was foolish enpugh to say in a thread he acount shared.

[AParadiseLost]

Also, this just in: The CSRs and GMs now have a collective PM box. This means all in-game and account issues should be pm'd to Fiesta_Help. Incoming reports will be divided amongst the appropriate personnel.

Forum-specific issues, however, still come to CLs.

I am confused, who do I report ...
in game scamming...
in game harassing/vulgar language/threats...
to GMs or to the collective PM box.

It sounds like I can do either, but the best probability of getting a response, either via action and/or notification of, if any, appears to still be through pming the GMs.

[AryannaMage]

It may take a while but you cant really say the GM's/CL's dont do their job. It's why I wont post a thing on a thread which escalates, or could in the future, into a flamewar even if it affects me. If I find someone who breaks ToS in anyway I take screenies and report to the GM's straight away. It may take them a while to actually do something about it but I always get an answer even if it takes a while. Otherwise I just try to take a step back and calm down. Even if I have to log out for a while and get off my computer.

[smitske]

It may take a while but you cant really say the GM's/CL's dont do their job. It's why I wont post a thing on a thread which escalates, or could in the future, into a flamewar even if it affects me. If I find someone who breaks ToS in anyway I take screenies and report to the GM's straight away. It may take them a while to actually do something about it but I always get an answer even if it takes a while. Otherwise I just try to take a step back and calm down. Even if I have to log out for a while and get off my computer.

then your more lucky then me in reporting ><

[KireiYosei]

I am confused, who do I report ...
in game scamming...
in game harassing/vulgar language/threats...
to GMs or to the collective PM box.

It sounds like I can do either, but the best probability of getting a response, either via action and/or notification of, if any, appears to still be through pming the GMs.

Basically, instead of PMing a specific GM, PM that name (Fiesta_Help).

[smitske]

that name only appeared a few days ago, so we couldnt do it before that ^^

[Tamlinari]

Well I have made complaints in the forum and identified other players by name in the past so I know that it does happen.
I don't do it anymore and I have even requested to have those threads deleted, which they were.
Blacklisting is wrong and I certainly agree that it should not be done.
As for it being too little too late, I agree with a previous poster who stated "better late than never".

The ironic thing is, the person that I complained about is now one of my best friends in the game and a admin in our Guild.

Sometimes it is just an overreaction to a misunderstanding which I have been guilty of doing on many occasions.

Blacklisting has a potential to permanently damage another person when maybe they were just having a bad day.

(like me today) :(

[angelswings]

So if someone does something that I feel should be reported... Do we PM ingame that name you stated above right then and there, Do we hit that little report button, does that take a SS automatically, and what info am I to put in the report box? Lots of questions I know... but I had someone threaten me by training me for "the rest of my fiesta life" and that they "hope I fall down a flight of stairs in real life and die" etc... all because I ksed them on accident. Only once I might add. There are some hot heads out there and I understand that but this was a little extreme IMO. So I reported them and typed in what was said and submitted it. It has been several months ago and I still see that person playing even now. I'm not complaining... not saying "nothing was done" cause I prolly didn't report properly or I may have done something wrong. But Maybe an explanation of how the "report" button works may be helpful.

[smitske]

the report function in game doesnt work, you need to take screenshots yourself, and Pm on the forums includingscreenshots, server data player data some explenation and so on.

[Jhanniss]

So if someone does something that I feel should be reported... Do we PM ingame that name you stated above right then and there, Do we hit that little report button, does that take a SS automatically, and what info am I to put in the report box? Lots of questions I know... but I had someone threaten me by training me for "the rest of my fiesta life" and that they "hope I fall down a flight of stairs in real life and die" etc... all because I ksed them on accident. Only once I might add. There are some hot heads out there and I understand that but this was a little extreme IMO. So I reported them and typed in what was said and submitted it. It has been several months ago and I still see that person playing even now. I'm not complaining... not saying "nothing was done" cause I prolly didn't report properly or I may have done something wrong. But Maybe an explanation of how the "report" button works may be helpful.


From experience I can tell you, take screen shots (print screen key). And if players are telling you that they hope you fall down stairs, just right click on their name in the chat box and select Block.

Not all reports have actions taken but they all are investigated. :)

And as smitske said, dont use that red light report button in game, it's broken.

Just take screen shots and then send a PM to Fiesta_Help.

[angelswings]

Ah ok. Yeah I blocked them. but that would explain a few things if the "report" button isn't reporting :D Thanks for the info

[Shahared]

I have read most of the thread, and have felt the need to point something out. As a player, you do not get to decide what someones punishment should be, and you do not get to decide whether someone deserves to be punished in the first place. It is up to the staff. So you think someone harassed you in the game? Well, thats YOUR opinion. To be on the outside looking in it does not always look like that. If Outspark went around 'banning' every single person who supposedly harassed someone there would be no more players to play the game. Simply because someone is a jerk doesn't mean they deserve to get punished. And even if they are harassing you, the first step is not going to be a ban. It's going to be a warning. If the staff started banning people left and right there would be no one to play the game.

There are 'maybe' 50 people who work at Outspark. There are 'hundreds' of people who work for blizzard on WoW. Only a handful of the 50 are actually involved with the game, the rest work on things like payroll, accounting, advertising, sales, computer services, networking, etc. Out of that 50 only the GMs are the ones dealing with every single persons complaint. Thats hundreds of people reporting things like someone calling them a noob, someone ksing them, all their guild problems etc. Out of those hundreds of complaints they need to sift through and find the ones that are actually valid. If they actually punished a person for every complaint sent to them, hundreds of people a day would be banned from playing this game.

This game is a business. It's not about you..it's never been about a single person at all, and it's not about a that single persons needs. It IS about the community, and the needs of the community. This game is for all of us. The game staff here actually tries to interact with us and provide us with unique experiences like events and GM involvement. Yet there are some of you more concerned with their personal feelings then the community. Well guess what would happen if the GMs had to deal with your personal issues solely? We would not have events, there would be no GM involvement. The GMs would spend all day processing reports and have no time to actually play the game with us. The one thing that makes Fiesta unique would be gone.

So, for the sake of the community, we ask you to consider what is best 'for the community'. Don't blacklist players, work with the CLs to make our community a better place (after all, we are simply ordinary players like you who want to make this a better place for all of us). If you see something wrong, by all means report it. But understand that it is up to the judgment of the game staff. Even as a CL I do not make the decisions about punishments or violations on the forums. It is still left to the game staff. So be patient with them. They have a great deal of work that you don't see them doing because it is in the background.

And above all, understand that it is ultimately up to them to make the decision. It is their game, and it's how they make their living. It's how they pay their rent, support their children, and feed themselves. It is more then just a way for you to have fun, and there is more going on in our community then meats the eye. Consider it an opportunity to show that you can be a part of something and help us all work together to make Fiesta a better place...something we can enjoy years from now, and look back on as a great accomplishment.

[smitske]

I think not letting people use bots and get away with it is best for the community, or am I wrong here?

[Shahared]

I think not letting people use bots and get away with it is best for the community, or am I wrong here?And who here ever said otherwise? I could walk up to a monster your fighting, attack it, screencap, and send a few of those in and say your a bot...seems pretty fair huh? That's why not every screencap you send in is going to result in a ban. And the fact is that your not a GM, you don't work for the staff, so you don't get to make that kind of decision.

[smitske]

thats why I always take series of screenshots which I send in(and since that event just a recorded movie) and i even put in the screenshots questions towards that person like, why are you ks'ing and are you a bot.

[Shahared]

thats why I always take series of screenshots which I send in(and since that event just a recorded movie) and i even put in the screenshots questions towards that person like, why are you ks'ing and are you a bot.
But you need to understand that your not always going to be 100% successful at convincing a staff member that what they are looking at is in fact a bot. Some people don't talk, some people have private chat on. Not everyone who kill steals is in fact a bot, and there are reasons for the staff to be careful when they ban someone from the game. No one is saying you should stop reporting bots or malicious players. We just ask that you be patient. I am posting to share with you all the reality of the situation, so you understand it better. What your asking for is perfection, when in reality nothing is perfect, and the world is not painted in black and white. There are many shades of grey, and the staff has every right to make the hard decisions how they see fit.

[smitske]

ye well, i send to serric and if he doesnt get it trough im done with making efforts on lacking my responsibility's as a cleric cause I lagg top much while trying to get a bot reported if theyr not gonne do a thing about it, if they didnt take the person for botting they should for ks'ing which i also filed a report for, and it was a bot and not talking cause just like any bot, after dying by being so stupid to dragg 20 mobs behind him/her self he/she didnt do a thing, just kay there for 3 minutes and then went spaw point and stayed there.

[Shahared]

ye well, i send to serric and if he doesnt get it trough im done with making efforts on lacking my responsibility's as a cleric cause I lagg top much while trying to get a bot reported if theyr not gonne do a thing about it, if they didnt take the person for botting they should for ks'ing which i also filed a report for, and it was a bot and not talking cause just like any bot, after dying by being so stupid to dragg 20 mobs behind him/her self he/she didnt do a thing, just kay there for 3 minutes and then went spaw point and stayed there.There are going to be people who annoy you unfortunately. But Serric is not responsible for bot reports. As CLs our only power lies over the forums. We have no responsibility over the game. Serric may be able to help you, but it is not his department. The fact is that not every report you send in is going to result in a ban. You shouldn't let it get to you man. Just play the game, enjoy yourself. If you see someone doing something wrong, and you have the time to report it, feel free to do so. But if it is getting to the point where your playing the game just to report people, well that's not the spirit of the game. We want you to stay and have fun. But please realize that bots and other violators are going to be a constant problem. As long as there are people on the internet there are going to be stupid people on the internet (you can quote me on that :p). Just enjoy yourself as much as possible, and don't let these malicious players get to you.

[smitske]

hard to enjoy when people can get the same as you by not even making a minimal effort and there's nothing done about it.
And to make a report which is just wasting time.

Makes me remind about an issue we got here, in our street, burglars robbed half the homes(with our neighbours even 3 times) and when they did it at our house they found a blood drup, DNA, now you would think they would use it to investigate who robbed all those houses of people that are paying their loan(of the cops), geuss what they said, we wont do it cause its to expensive, so we pay taxes to get protection, but yet they dont protect us they just let the crooks get away with it, ill tell ya if I find them in my(parents) house ill kill them or hurt them badly.

Which is the same feeling i got here, true I dont pay them, put I use my spare time to help keeping it clean, when its actually a waste and dont get any positive feedback, so actually wasting my time(like wasting my tax money caus eI dont get the neccesary protecion of the cops in return, well my parents their cash cause im not 18 yet but you ghet the picture).

[KireiYosei]

hard to enjoy when people can get the same as you by not even making a minimal effort and there's nothing done about it.
And to make a report which is just wasting time.

Makes me remind about an issue we got here, in our street, burglars robbed half the homes(with our neighbours even 3 times) and when they did it at our house they found a blood drup, DNA, now you would think they would use it to investigate who robbed all those houses of people that are paying their loan(of the cops), geuss what they said, we wont do it cause its to expensive, so we pay taxes to get protection, but yet they dont protect us they just let the crooks get away with it, ill tell ya if I find them in my(parents) house ill kill them or hurt them badly.

Which is the same feeling i got here, true I dont pay them, put I use my spare time to help keeping it clean, when its actually a waste and dont get any positive feedback, so actually wasting my time(like wasting my tax money caus eI dont get the neccesary protecion of the cops in return, well my parents their cash cause im not 18 yet but you ghet the picture).

Thats why I always think of karma. What goes around, comes around. If they are hacking or cheating, I'm sure eventually they will be brought to justice. Be it for what you saw them doing, or not. Just worry about yourself, and know that you are the one playing fair and working hard.

[smitske]

like ive said before, thats one of the thngs that make me fed up, thinking why did I do it the hard way, wasting time if I could do it the easy way, and get away with it?(and I doubt if im alone)
And I dont believe in karma.

[Shahared]

I'm sorry smitske, but your statements are entirely inaccurate. You flat out stated that nothing is being done to stop bots and that is just not the case. If that where the case there would be no xtrap, no new GMs, no need for GLs, and they probably would have never added CLs to the forum. I am truly sorry you think this way, but I greatly disagree with that statement. The fact is that bots are going to exist. We are going to try and stop them, but it's a constant battle. If you have ever played other MMOs you would know that they have just as much of a problem as we do here. I am afraid to break it to you, but it is a fact of life. The same goes for your story. That's part of life.

[csr_hal]

this thread is problematic so I'm going to close it.

one thing for you all to remember... there are only 3 GM's and 2 CSR's... that's 5 of us and thousands of you guys. we try to help everyone... but the numbers are simply against us. please consider that.