Relation between attack and defense

[kiwioyster]

ok, pretend that u r fighting a monster with 500def, and u hav 1000~1200 atk. i think that ur damage on the monster is not 500~700...(atk-def=dmg)

becoz if this was true u would be doing negative 300~500dmg on a monster with 1500def

i think it is alot more complicated than atk-def=dmg

any1 got any idea how 2 work out the damage??

[SeventhMagpie]

Ewww maths.
-hides-

[Poisoned77]

If that is the way the algorithm works then yes. But, I think the way it works is if you have a mob with more defense than you have attack, your damage is lowered to its minimum. There are also other factors to include such as magic attack, and magic defense.

[Ryokosha]

That can't be true either if you have like 200-300 atk you can already do like 1000+ damage to slimes. It seems to be somewhat exponential. ^^'

[FrostFruit]

There was a thread about strength ignoring damage(in build). While strength equipments seem to give a little boost since the defence of the monster blocks your damage. I read somewhere that strength is very valuable in builds. I really cannot find it. Though, this is something to read that might interest you.:p

[FrostFruit]

There was a thread about strength ignoring damage(in build). While strength equipments seem to give a little boost since the defence of the monster blocks your damage. I read somewhere that strength is very valuable in builds. I really cannot find it. Though, this is something to read that might interest you.:p Although, I cannot provide the link..I hope someone else could to help your understanding of the relationship with defence and strength.

[kiwioyster]

Ewww maths.
-hides-
lol

If that is the way the algorithm works then yes. But, I think the way it works is if you have a mob with more defense than you have attack, your damage is lowered to its minimum. There are also other factors to include such as magic attack, and magic defense.
if u hav 100~110 atk and monster has 110def, ur damage is not gona be 1, its should be like 20 or something... but wen the monsters def is like 500, then ur dmg will be lowerd to 1.
magic dmg and magic def should work in the same way as physical attacks

That can't be true either if you have like 200-300 atk you can already do like 1000+ damage to slimes. It seems to be somewhat exponential. ^^'
yea, it is a sorta exponential

iv worked out this really long equation for solving the damage... but its way too long, any1 got a short quick equation theyd like 2 share :3?
---------------------------------------------------------------

There was a thread about strength ignoring damage(in build). While strength equipments seem to give a little boost since the defence of the monster blocks your damage. I read somewhere that strength is very valuable in builds. I really cannot find it. Though, this is something to read that might interest you.:p Although, I cannot provide the link..I hope someone else could to help your understanding of the relationship with defence and strength.
ah ok... i havnt really thought about str, iv only been looking at atk vs. def

i kinda got this equation [(1+10/D)^(X/80)]x[A/2.5]x1.001^[(-D^2)/A]
where A is atk, D is def , and X is A-D
@.@'

edit- im jst guessing here - wen it says in ur character free stat "Damage + 20" i think it actually means ur original dmg +20 more, coz if it was +20 atk then it would be almost useless... +20 atk works out 2 b like 5 xtra dmg -.-

[Poisoned77]

Ah, it doesn't really matter to me. I was just throwing something out there (I'm an artist, not a mathematician) As long as I kill 'em before they get me, I'm fine.

[tayballer]

that very complicated stuff and i couldnt solve that if my life depended on it lolz

[SeventhMagpie]

Lets leave it as.

More Defence = Less Damage

[Poisoned77]

Not like we can ever see the stats of mobs anyways. If we could, I know I wouldn't be as brave in-game as I am now.

"Hmm...I'm a lvl 38 fighter with plenty of tier 2 pots, of course I can take on GGK and a couple of his flunkies"

Insta-fail...

[kiwioyster]

Lets leave it as.

More Defence = Less Damage
but by how much -.-
if u find the exact relation between atk and def, u can work out how many xtra dmg u do wif a +9 and how much time u can save... and time is money, so by working out the relation, u save money :O

Not like we can ever see the exact defense of mobs anyways.
yea, but u can work it out by going 2 pvp battle ground wif a friend, ask 4 his/her def, take a few hits then u can work it out... (lol i made it sound really easy)
after working out teh equation u can go and atk some mob and work out their def :O that would be awsome - u can atk ppl in battle zone and work out their exact def, u will be psychic XD

[Poisoned77]

yea, but u can work it out by going 2 pvp battle ground wif a friend, ask 4 his/her def, take a few hits then u can work it out... (lol i made it sound really easy)
after working out teh equation u can go and atk some mob and work out there def :O that would be awsome - u can atk ppl in battle zone and guess their exact def, u will be psychic XD

Yea, but I play videogames to relieve stress and forget about all the junk that happened during the day. I don't play them to attend math class all over again. -.-

[DemonBlitzKragor]

I think the thread which explained all this was by a person name Horinia (i'm not even sure if its spelled it right =/)

[kiwioyster]

I think the thread which explained all this was by a person name Horinia (i'm not even sure if its spelled it right =/)

ok i found horinia's eq -
Damage Rating = (damage rating min value+((max-min)*rand(.0~1)))
Damage = ((Damage Rating)*(Damage Rating/Defense stat)) + (free str)-(free end)

but i dont understand tht rand(.0~1) bit... ><

this eq didnt work wif "higher def and lower atk" situation... or maybe i jst dont quite get the eq o.o'

[DemonBlitzKragor]

lol sorry, i don't quite understand it either that much, maybe you should try and pm her and try to get her to explain it to you in easy terms so it would be easier for you to understand.

[Poisoned77]

ok i found horinia's eq -
Damage Rating = (damage rating min value+((max-min)*rand(.0~1)))
Damage = ((Damage Rating)*(Damage Rating/Defense stat)) + (free str)-(free end)

but i dont understand tht rand(.0~1) bit... ><

this eq didnt work wif "higher def and lower atk" situation... or maybe i jst dont quite get the eq o.o'

the rand is a common programming function. The algorithm that runs the damage function chooses a random number between .1 and 1.

So I think it would read like a mathematical expression:
max dmg - min dmg multiplied by the random number. All of that added too your dmg rating minimum value.

your atk multiplied by atk divided by defense. All of that added to your free stat points minus the points put on END.

[kiwioyster]

the rand is a common programming function. The algorithm that runs the damage function chooses a random number between .1 and 1.

ok so basically ill test this eq wif 2 test data
1st. 1000~1200 atk. +10str
670 def. +25end

and

2nd. 500~600 atk. +0str
900 def. +50end


1st. Dmg r8ing=(1000+((1200-1000)x random number... i choose 0.85)))
so- dmg r8ing = 1170
and- total dmg= ((1170)x(1170/670))+(10)-(25)
total dmg= 2028.134 rounded to 2028 dmg

WOW DAM! thats HIGH! (plz point out if im wrong ><)

2nd. dr = (500+((600-500)x rand. i choose 0.69))
= 569
and- td= ((569)x(569/900))+(0)-(50)
and total dmg = 309

still too high....

maybe i didnt quite understand the eq...

in conc.
the 1st situation a guy has 1000~1200 dmg rating and +10str, he hits a guys wif 670 def with +25end... and he does 2028 dmg...

2nd situation, a guy wif 500~600 dmg and no str+, hit a guy wif 900 def and +50end and does 309 dmg...

[Poisoned77]

Only high levels though have that high of an attack rating, though. I am almost forty and just hit 500 dmg with my axe. So essentially you have to be 6-7x to get that. Thinking on it, when I have been killed in PVP by maxed levels, they usually hit me around 2k.

[kiwioyster]

Only high levels though have that high of an attack rating, though. I am almost forty and just hit 500 dmg with my axe. So essentially you have to be 6-7x to get that. Thinking on it, when I have been killed in PVP by maxed levels, they usually hit me around 2k.
the main reason i used 1000~1200 atk and 670def is becoz i hav that... and i can test and see how much dmg id do if i hit my self... with out buff, i hav about 1.7k hp and if i hit myself with a normal atk (that does 2028dmg) id kill myself in 1hit :O impossible...

[Horinia]

Someone with THAT high of an attack going againt a monster with that defensive rating may actually see that damage. Its more then possible. And as I had stated in my guide, the PvP and PvE systems may be independant of each other.

[Poisoned77]

the main reason i used 1000~1200 atk and 670def is becoz i hav that... and i can test and see how much dmg id do if i hit my self... with out buff, i hav about 1.7k hp and if i hit myself with a normal atk (that does 2028dmg) id kill myself in 1hit :O impossible...

what are you, pure str?

[Horinia]

In case any are interested in my work in progress

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66900

Part of the reason it may seem that the damage in your first example was too high, is because defense is a declining return. 600 defense rating compared to the attack rating in your example is a huge margin. Secondly the equation simulates the tangent of the function, while it seems to match the information its morealong the lines of mapping the effect of defense as it goes up based off of a static attack rating.

Also as it states in the bottom of the guide, this is a possible equation that matches the information i have gathered. The actuall one the use in game may be different , it may not be.

[kiwioyster]

what are you, pure str?
no, i got +9 wep and lots of str+s on my equipments

In case any are interested in my work in progress

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66900

Part of the reason it may seem that the damage in your first example was too high, is because defense is a declining return. 600 defense rating compared to the attack rating in your example is a huge margin. Secondly the equation simulates the tangent of the function, while it seems to match the information its morealong the lines of mapping the effect of defense as it goes up based off of a static attack rating.

Also as it states in the bottom of the guide, this is a possible equation that matches the information i have gathered. The actuall one the use in game may be different , it may not be.
i really dont think that 1000atk vs 600def is a huge margin...
and no way would i do 2k dmg on a person with 600def... i probably only do about 3k dmg on slimes, and their def is like 5....

and for my 2nd situation, 500~600atk vs 900def = 300dmg is impossible. i would say 500~600 atk is about lvl 30-40 and 900def is lvl 60+. so how can a lvl 40 do 300dmg on a lvl 60 with a normal hit....

sorry, but i think theres something wrong wif ur equation...