Ksing not against ToS anymore? O.o

[AryannaMage]

Tonight I had a very interesting conversation and thought I share it. Was in CP soloing Harkans for a quest when a cleric came into the same spot and also fought them. She ksed me once so I told her: "I would appreciate it if you didnt ks me." There were more then enough Harkans for both of us after all. No answer but for the next couple minutes at least she didnt ks me anymore. But she did start again after a while so once again: "Dont ks!" This time she did answer and this is the conversation we had from there.

Player A (Me): Dont ks!
Player B (Cleric): Shut up
Player B: Noob
Player A: Screened and I will report that.
Player B: u go ahead
Player B: Ill report u too
Player A: For what? You ksed me.
Player B: just get lost dont bother outspark customer again capice ?
Player B: i'll report on whatever i wanna report u XD
Player B: as long as i report cuz u reported u started it
Player A: Ksing is against ToS I asked you to stop you didnt so yes it is in my right to report you for it. Especially considering what you are calling me now i.e. noob and stuff
Player B: i well im sorry i didnt see that rule
Player B: and i dont believe it
Player B: if u dont want to have ksed u should get lost ? XD

I screened that entire conversation and at that point logged out and reported her to the GM's with the screenies of course.

But my question now is:

1. Is it allowed now to KS because this cleric certainly seems to believe so?

2. Is it allowed to call anyone names now?

3. Is this not a reportable offence?

4. Is all this not in ToS anymore? I seem to remember it was.

5. Can anyone explain to me what I did wrong to get reported?

6. Can it be this player believes herself to be immune to the rules because she used CS? And if so is she right now?

7. I started what exactly?

[wannabeguyo]

If this was in the Abyss, then your out of luck no rules there Ksing, Training, Spwn killing everything goes. Other than that you were right to report him.

[AryannaMage]

CP = Collapsed Prison

[wannabeguyo]

oh im sorry lol, i didnt notice that you put CP >.< lol. yea this person will be punished no worries

[AryannaMage]

oh im sorry lol, i didnt notice that you put CP >.< lol. yea this person will be punished no worries


Can I call you my *blind little bat* then? :D

But any idea how anyone could even get the idea that the cleric was right and could report me?

[Farashimisanoob]

Nothing in ToS states you cannot Ks.

[UzumakiW]

^It is still against the rules.

But any idea how anyone could even get the idea that the cleric was right and could report me?

My guess would be that he was bluffing. He was trying to get you to get you to not report him by threatening you, even though you did nothing wrong. Was probably hoping that you would fall for it or something. Not sure if that was what he was really doing, but that's my guess.

[AryannaMage]

My guess would be that he was bluffing. He was trying to get you to get you to not report him by threatening you, even though you did nothing wrong. Was probably hoping that you would fall for it or something. Not sure if that was what he was really doing, but that's my guess.

Bad bluff then... He just made me angrier the more he said. If he didnt want me to report him he should have just stopped ksing and maybe even said:"Sorry". That normally helps. ^^

But she still did it during the entire conversation. T_T

[Poisoned77]

Nothing in ToS states you cannot Ks.
Uhh, yes it does. KS'ing has been determined by Outspark staff as harassment and is covered explicitly in the ToS.

w) You may not do anything that interferes with the capability of other Outspark Members to enjoy the Outspark Service as defined by the Terms of Service, or that increases the expense or difficulty to Outspark of maintaining the Outspark Service for Outspark Members.

e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.

[UzumakiW]

Poisoned77 = All knowing master of ToS :D

[Serric]

If it is not a PVP arena (BZ) then yes, everything you've listed is a violation which warrants a report.

[Poisoned77]

Lol uzi, I try...I try...

[Farashimisanoob]

If it is not a PVP arena (BZ) then yes, everything you've listed is a violation which warrants a report.

How though? Nothing in Tos states it.

[srkideath]

I have goodly idea for kser...admins can make some automatic BAN for kser,its kser make 4-5 times ksing then server can BAN him forever :D

I hate this kser ppl this make me crazy :mad:

btw this is good idea for all in this game ;)

[Aveta]

From the TOS

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.

e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your use of the Outspark Service is subject at all times to these Terms of Service and our Privacy Policy. Any content, including but not limited to, User Accounts created on the Outspark Service or submitted to the Outspark Service is governed by these Terms. This includes, but is not limited to, proper in-game and out of game conduct.

These are the guidelines that can make KSing against the TOS, if it is severe enough. Thats up to the staff to decide though. Same thing with name calling, "noob" is most likely not derogatory enough to get any action taken. His threat to report you falls under this too

Outspark strives to provide free –to-play content via the Outspark Service. Outspark Members are not required to purchase Premium Items to fully enjoy the Outspark Service, however, Outspark Members may charge SparkCash to their Outspark Accounts using a payment gateway (e.g. PayPal) in order to acquire said Premium Items.

From here you can infer that the cleric has no more rights than you do when it comes to reporting. I know plenty of people who have been disciplined who spend a lot on spark cash.

Really nothing can be done for this situation, that cleric just needs a reality check and to give daddy his credit card back.

Edit: Bla someone beat me to it, thats what I get for replying in the middle of a kq

[Farashimisanoob]

Hmmm, interesting..

[Serric]

How though? Nothing in Tos states it.

It depends on how hard you want to look. This covers a lot, actually:

e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion

&

w) You may not do anything that interferes with the capability of other Outspark Members to enjoy the Outspark Service as defined by the Terms of Service, or that increases the expense or difficulty to Outspark of maintaining the Outspark Service for Outspark Members.

In essence, don't go out of your way to harass other players.

[Lythari]

It's a matter of how your read it. It would take a very long time to list out every violation, so they make a blanket statement. Basically:

"Mind your manners or else."

[TheCentrix]

A lot of people think they are imune to the rules because they buy premium items. But this is NOT true. If you violate the TOS, even if you purchased $600,- worth of CS items, you can be jailed or banned.

[lordofthesick]

i dont know for a fact but ive heard many a rumor of ppl buying a ton of sc (around 5 grand ive heard) and still getting banned. But on the otherside ive heard of these big spenders getting alot of special treatment and being immune to the ban hammer.

hard to say which i think is true outspark is a business and if someone is pulling in alot of money for them not to hard to imagine them giving them a little leeway when it comes to breaking the rules.

[Serric]

i dont know for a fact but ive heard many a rumor of ppl buying a ton of sc (around 5 grand ive heard) and still getting banned. But on the otherside ive heard of these big spenders getting alot of special treatment and being immune to the ban hammer.

hard to say which i think is true outspark is a business and if someone is pulling in alot of money for them not to hard to imagine them giving them a little leeway when it comes to breaking the rules.

I can assure you this is wholly rumor and nothing else. Everyone is bound to the legal terms regardless of any factor and everyone is equal when it comes to the ban hammer. Seeing as most items have an expiration date I can't even understand why someone would spend anywhere near that much money on a character... it's be funny of they did tho, and watch it all go to waste as they sit in jail.

No, spark cash does not exonerate you from the TOS.

In cases where leniency or favoritism is suspected and found, the ban hammer is not held back in the least. On this you have my word.

[TheCentrix]

Also, Outspark is a company and they have certain policies.

[kalone]

A lot of people think they are imune to the rules because they buy premium items. But this is NOT true. If you violate the TOS, even if you purchased $600,- worth of CS items, you can be jailed or banned.

What about a billion dollars worth?

[Shadowic2]

What about a billion dollars worth?

It still wouldn't matter, considering the money would belong to Outspark after the person payed that must in CS items.So it's not like Outspark would have to worry about losing money if they jailed/banned that person. Sure, they would miss out on that particular person paying more of that amount again, but If they break the rules, they must pay for their actions.There will be plenty of other customers willing to buy and make up for the people removed from the game for their behavior.

[Poisoned77]

I think kalone was being sarcastic XD. No need to be the helpful forumer this time Shadowic, I think the CLs have reiterated enough about cash shop users and disciplinary actions.

[Shadowic2]

Hmm, probably.
4am + Sarcasm Detector = Malfunction. Weee.
Holy Insomnia batman.
Anyways, I was also clearing up why Outspark wouldn't have a problem getting rid of someone who violates the ToS, no matter how much they spend.

[Kraehe]

Hmm, probably.
4am + Sarcasm Detector = Malfunction. Weee.
Holy Insomnia batman.
Anyways, I was also clearing up why Outspark wouldn't have a problem getting rid of someone who violates the ToS, no matter how much they spend.

*tucks in bed*

You can be helpful after sleeping. 4am? Gosh >__>!

[Quiksilverjosh]

I sometimes help people when they are getting owned and they say i KS it annoys the hell out of me or say "don't ks" when they are clearly getting owned. -_-

[Raku]

The only thing that bugs me is that KSing is allowed in battle zones(Abyss)...makes no sense to me. KSing is KSing, no matter where you are. The fact that it's PVP doesn't change the fact they're stealing your kill, they're not killing you...they're killing your mob, which is the same as it is outside the BZ...it's dumb..

[Ryokosha]

KSing is always illegal, but sometimes it's hard to proof. If the screenshot proof is solid the KSer will get jailed, though.

PVP areas aka Abyss are a different issue. There you can even kill other players if you want their mobs.

You can't get punished for reporting someone directly, however blacklisting isn't allowed anymore so if you made a thread on forums and say "<insert name> has ksed me" then you can get punished for it as well.

[horong]

KS would be allowed in battlezones cos you can kill the KSer.

anyway, I am saddened that there are more retarded clerics coming in. I would give anything to get polite, well-mannered clerics instead of the unruly bunch going about nowadays (this is wishful thinking mind you)(this is no way referred to the veteran players, this would be talking about the NEW ppl who come in thinking clerics don't have to do their jobs in parties)

[Raku]

KSing is always illegal, but sometimes it's hard to proof. If the screenshot proof is solid the KSer will get jailed, though.

PVP areas aka Abyss are a different issue. There you can even kill other players if you want their mobs.

You can't get punished for reporting someone directly, however blacklisting isn't allowed anymore so if you made a thread on forums and say "<insert name> has ksed me" then you can get punished for it as well.

The whole idea of KSing is it's harassment, so it just suddenly stops being harassment in a pvp zone? That makes no sense. So I guess I can spam, call names, and harass players in the pvp zone, just 'cause it's a pvp zone. It's not really fair to lower lvl players in the pvp zones who get KSed by higher lvls, especially when it's happening a lot. Your points have no meaning to them if you think about it logically.

[Ryokosha]

Harassment is not allowed, however attacking any monster or any player in a pvp area is not a harassment. In the whole pvp area the rule is that the strongest wins. It's all about competition. The best one can kill the mob and get the exp. Or kill you to get rid of you.

If you don't like that then stop going to pvp areas~


Also I'm just saying how the rules are, that's not my personal opinion. I don't like pvp to begin with~

[Draco_Zandros]

Expanding on what Ryokosha said:
The whole idea of PvP areas is to encourage people to fight each other, therefore you could consider somebody kill stealing as a challenge, it is then up to you if you want to accept that challenge or not.
However, harassment is still against the ToS, if you was to follow the same person around kill stealing then in all likelihood if they reported you you would get jailed. Name calling is always harassment, it does not matter where you do it :P


horong: Most new players are not retarded and some "veteran" players are "corrupt". Also, unless the cleric agrees to be your heal slave it is NOT their duty to heal you, the only exception to this would be KQ's because the cleric usually will not be tough enough to take punishment or strong enough to deal enough damage and as such their only real purpose is healing.

[Shadowic2]

*tucks in bed*

You can be helpful after sleeping. 4am? Gosh >__>!


<.< I was waiting for Sleep to hit me with a bag of bricks.



And onto the Topic of Ks'ing in PvP zones.
A PvP zone is where you can attack and fight other players, NOT KS them. Ks'ing is still harassment, PvP zone or not. The only difference is that you can kill the KS'er in a PvP zone.
Just because PvP is enabled in a zone does not give people immunity to harassment. The ToS applies anywhere and everywhere in the game.

[Raku]

<.< I was waiting for Sleep to hit me with a bag of bricks.



And onto the Topic of Ks'ing in PvP zones.
A PvP zone is where you can attack and fight other players, NOT KS them. Ks'ing is still harassment, PvP zone or not. The only difference is that you can kill the KS'er in a PvP zone.
Just because PvP is enabled in a zone does not give people immunity to harassment. The ToS applies anywhere and everywhere in the game.

Thank you, but you see, it seems KSing in PVP zones is an exeption for some strange reason, as I've found out from Dakkon..Though I think their logic is totally flawed, because, like you've said, it's still KSing. It is still harassment, or what they call harassment here, so I don't see why there should be any different punishment for KSing between a PvE zone and a PvP zone..So it seems Dakkon is making exceptions to the ToS, if KSing IS harassment.

[Ryokosha]

What's the difference between killing the mob of a player and first killing the player and then his mob? It doesn't make sense to me.

Allowing KS is PVP zones is the only logical way. o.o

[Raku]

What's the difference between killing the mob of a player and first killing the player and then his mob? It doesn't make sense to me.

Allowing KS is PVP zones is the only logical way. o.o

The point is, KSing is against the rules because it's considered Harassment. Killing them in PVP is the point of PVP. When they're dead, they're no longer fighting the mob, so it's no longer their kill. Go ahead and kill them. The point of this is KSing. They're making exceptions to this Harassment rule because of a zone. So then we should be able to harass, bug, spot claim, call names, etc. to people in the PVP zone if they're just gunna throw out KSing of Harassment for PVP.

If they set up a rule that you can't KS, it should be specified, not under this harassment rule if they're gunna make exceptions like this.

[Shadowic2]

What's the difference between killing the mob of a player and first killing the player and then his mob? It doesn't make sense to me.

Allowing KS is PVP zones is the only logical way. o.o

Well once the player is dead, it's no longer their monster. Once someone dies or stops attacking a monster, and it loses it's aggro because of that, it starts to regenerate health. And until the monster regains it's full health, you will only get partial exp.

So why KS for partial exp, when you can just kill the player, and during that time the monster will have probably gone back to normal health and you can then get the full exp for them after you've dealt with the player.

A PvP zone is for players to kill other players. It's not a Player vs Player & their monsters.

It's meant to be a competitive environment between players. Where they can fight for spots and monsters. Not to harass them via KS'ing or name calling.

[AryannaMage]

Though this is my own thread I never meant for this to get this out of hand and start an argument about KSing in pvp zones. In the end its up to the GM's if anyone thinks they have been harrassed in anyway take screenies and send it to them. I will close this thread in about half an hour before it goes too far.

[KateeHellen]

This is a little irony..., we read so many threads about high lvls in Roumen Battlezone killing newbies<and not only>, but when comes to PvP when loss XP IS a factor then PvP become an empty word...< noone will risk to loss 40k XP to kill KSer(because KSer my kill KSed player)>.
However like Dakkon stated sometime ago Abbyses are PvP areas not grind fields..., then if someone KS you simply EXECUTE ORDER 66<who have seen epidode III will known what i mean>...