Mind Blast -vs- Magic Thunder

[ratha]

Ever since i got magic thunder, i thought of it as fairly useless, took 1 more mana, and didnt do a noticeable amount of extra damage. Last night i spent about two hours writing down minimum and maximum damage using both mind blast and thunder.

After lots of testing, ive come to the conclusion that the damage increase is not worth the extra cost in mana. Their damage ranges overlap quite often. Magic thunder does 5-6 more base damage than mind blast, and 7-8 more maximum damage. Magic thunder does seem to have a longer range than mind blast however.

At my level, magic thunder gives less than a 4% increase in damage over mind blast (about 6 minimum damage), versus a 14% increase in mana cost. The only time ive found it useful, is to insure a one-hit kill on a really low level monster, or as the opening few shot or two on a monster, due to its extra distance.

Do the math: (Using the Buckle Monster for calculations)
Damage Compared by Mana Usage
56 Mana = 8 Casts of Mind Blast = 1288-1424 Damage
56 Mana = 7 Casts of Thunder = 1169-1295 Damage

Damage Compared by # of Casts
49 Mana = 7 Casts of Mind Blast = 1127-1246 Damage
56 Mana = 7 Casts of Thunder = 1169-1295 Damage

-

Theglaia Forest
Damage - Monster - Magic - Difference Between Min/Max (Observed)
-------------------------------
161-178 - Buckle - Blast - 17
167-185 - Buckle - Thunder - 18 (6-7 more than Blast)

163-180 - Hoolio - Blast - 17
169-187 - Hoolio - Thunder - 18 (6-7 more than Blast)

165-182 - Cabri - Blast - 17
171-190 - Cabri - Thunder - 19 (6-8 more than Blast)

167-185 - Dugy - Blast - 18
173-192 - Dugy - Thunder - 19 (6-7 more than Blast)


-

Level 33
HP - 288
Mana - 228

POW - 5
INT - 23+2
AGI - 2
MEN - 5
STA - 3
WIS - 10

Attack = 6
Defense = 2+51
Magic = 38+71
Dodge = 6
Attack Speed = 1.3
Move Speed = 19+1
Hit Rate = 86
Critical = 4
Skill Critical = 4

[ratha]

Is a possible 6-8 damage per cast worth 1 point of mana? I guess it depends on your goal, but considering that mana either costs time (to recharge) or money (for potions) conserving mana should be every mage's priority.

With 228 mana, (using the Buckle for calculations) that breaks down into:

Using mana to compare:
32 Casts of Mind Blast - 32*7 = 224 Mana - 5152-5696 Damage (476-516 or 10% more)
28 Casts of Thunder - 28*8 = 224 Mana - 4676-5180 Damage

Using # of casts to compare:
28 Casts of Mind Blast - 28*7 = 196 Mana - 4508-4984 Damage
28 Casts of Thunder - 28*8 = 224 Mana - 4676-5180 Damage (168-196 or 3.8% more)

Can anyone offer any thoughts as to what they use, and why they use it? Given all the data ive written down, i truthfully cannot recommend the use of Thunder, except for in very limited cases.

Case #1 - Against certain Ice-slowed ranged attack monsters, you can avoid most of their ranged damage by kiting and using Thunder since it seems to have a 1-2 step longer range than Mind Blast.

Case #2 - 1 hit kills. Better to spend 8 mana on Thunder to kill a monster, than 14 on Mind Blast and have to cast twice.

Case #3 - A monster that takes 7 hits of Thunder to kill, compared to 8 of Mind Blast. Saving you casting time, but not mana.

I would be very interested in hearing other's opinions or observations on the Mind Blast -vs- Magic Thunder issue, whether they agree or disagree with my point, and specially if they can add more details or correct any numbers. *Specifically i want to know if anyone has observed a difference more than 6 min to 8 max damage for Thunder as compared to Blast.

[Minryu]

You're forgetting that Magic Thunder has a faster cooldown, so you get more attacks in.
And this is coming from someone who only used Apprentice for a couple days.

[ratha]

I havnt seen the difference myself.. i heard that it was faster too, but i sure cant tell. Now and then they both seem to be faster and slower, i figure its related to the server load and client ping.

Sure would be nice if official numbers/formulas for attack damage, and cool downs were posted.

[AnimePimp66]

Ever since i got magic thunder, i thought of it as fairly useless, took 1 more mana, and didnt do a noticeable amount of extra damage. Last night i spent about two hours writing down minimum and maximum damage using both mind blast and thunder.

After lots of testing, ive come to the conclusion that the damage increase is not worth the extra cost in mana. Their damage ranges overlap quite often. Magic thunder does 5-6 more base damage than mind blast, and 7-8 more maximum damage. Magic thunder does seem to have a longer range than mind blast however.

At my level, magic thunder gives less than a 4% increase in damage over mind blast (about 6 minimum damage), versus a 14% increase in mana cost. The only time ive found it useful, is to insure a one-hit kill on a really low level monster, or as the opening few shot or two on a monster, due to its extra distance.

Do the math: (Using the Buckle Monster for calculations)
Damage Compared by Mana Usage
56 Mana = 8 Casts of Mind Blast = 1288-1424 Damage
56 Mana = 7 Casts of Thunder = 1169-1295 Damage

Damage Compared by # of Casts
49 Mana = 7 Casts of Mind Blast = 1127-1246 Damage
56 Mana = 7 Casts of Thunder = 1169-1295 Damage

-

Theglaia Forest
Damage - Monster - Magic - Difference Between Min/Max (Observed)
-------------------------------
161-178 - Buckle - Blast - 17
167-185 - Buckle - Thunder - 18 (6-7 more than Blast)

163-180 - Hoolio - Blast - 17
169-187 - Hoolio - Thunder - 18 (6-7 more than Blast)

165-182 - Cabri - Blast - 17
171-190 - Cabri - Thunder - 19 (6-8 more than Blast)

167-185 - Dugy - Blast - 18
173-192 - Dugy - Thunder - 19 (6-7 more than Blast)


-

Level 33
HP - 288
Mana - 228

POW - 5
INT - 23+2
AGI - 2
MEN - 5
STA - 3
WIS - 10

Attack = 6
Defense = 2+51
Magic = 38+71
Dodge = 6
Attack Speed = 1.3
Move Speed = 19+1
Hit Rate = 86
Critical = 4
Skill Critical = 4

thats good info and all
but but mind blast is first noob skill dunt u feel more inclined to switch it up a bit i mean wats one more mana. me personally i was exited as hell when i got thunder.and as soon as i got fire tht was my new main attack.start worrying about conserving mp when yer dealing wit choice between thunder lv 3 or fire lv1

[frozenice87v]

the dmg diff increases in lvl i only swtich to using thunder at lvl 28 while i was moon bearing

[Kayarine]

Very nice info. :)

I stopped using Mind Buster since I got Magic Thunder, because I like doing the highest damage I can. XD

[Redinel]

Finaly some maths that noone can disobey ^^

But at the very end most ppl will stay with their new magic spells - reason is simple, they just look better. Some need to reconcider using it in pts. I can't disagree that picture of mage 71+ using mind buster would be kinda funny.

Tha's quite big peace of hardwork. Thanks and keep on your researchs ;)

[Deviot_Aviot]

Useful info, but when u hit more, it kills faster
and
kills faster = decreases risk of dying
so i'll stick with higher dmg spells
keep up the work though ;)

[ggBuRNe]

High levels will usually go for skills that kill the mobs faster.. we want the exp and we don't want to waste time just to save pots.. However, it is annoying sometimes that the mp reduced to 0 too quick..

[Ameranth]

erm i prefer magic thunder than mind buster... i want to gain exp fast so i hav to use skills that do more dmg to kill monster quick. but sometimes i used mind buster if im fooling around or watsoever... haha lvl 3 magic fire/lvl 2 beam/magic flame/lvl 5 magic ice is wat im currently using now when leveling...

i knw foger loves magic thunder coz he like the sound and impact of the thunder. i like fire coz its kinda smooth attck. lol

buster vs thunder,,, i prefer thunder...

[ggBuRNe]

erm i prefer magic thunder than mind buster... i want to gain exp fast so i hav to use skills that do more dmg to kill monster quick. but sometimes i used mind buster if im fooling around or watsoever... haha lvl 3 magic fire/lvl 2 beam/magic flame/lvl 5 magic ice is wat im currently using now when leveling...

i knw foger loves magic thunder coz he like the sound and impact of the thunder. i like fire coz its kinda smooth attck. lol

buster vs thunder,,, i prefer thunder...


LOL!! showing off new skills to us low lvl.. :D I am happy to be the one that witnessed the flame.. AND luckily the mp is low only 23.. I forgot to ask you the mp of magic beam lvl 2.. Yes I prefer magic thunder over any other skills.. But since I have less time playing, I often use magic fire lvl 3(28mp)..

Anyway, do you notice that the range of magic buster is smaller compare to other skills???

[ratha]

I cant really claim to be of high level at this point, and yes it does get a bit old using the same newbie spell that your character comes with basically. Thats actually part of what brought on the whole test in the first place. I was trying to prove that magic thunder was better than mind blast since it was a higher level spell, however there have been fairly mixed results. Ill stick with mind blast for awhile longer since i rarely get enough drops to pay for the mana potions i would end up using.

Will try to keep track of the numbers as my level progresses and see if the difference between them increases. It did change a bit when i changed monster types, and got a new weapon at level 33, but that could have been solely monster types, not level or damage dependent. Will go and compare with some earlier monsters later on.

[Ameranth]

LOL!! showing off new skills to us low lvl.. :D I am happy to be the one that witnessed the flame.. AND luckily the mp is low only 23.. I forgot to ask you the mp of magic beam lvl 2.. Yes I prefer magic thunder over any other skills.. But since I have less time playing, I often use magic fire lvl 3(28mp)..

Anyway, do you notice that the range of magic buster is smaller compare to other skills???

LOL kodok... >,<

Magic Beam lvl 2 = 29 mp

i think mind buster and magic flame kinda same in range

[Aensel]

magic thunder just looks sweeter than mind buster

[AnimePimp66]

magic thunder just looks sweeter than mind buster

indeed !!!!!!!

[ratha]

Before i begin, does anyone know how much +1 magic actually increases damage? It seems to increase damage by 2 points, as tested by equipping rings and fighting the same monsters. Im still in the process of testing this myself, but if anyone knew for sure, that would save some time. :)

I did more testing, on weaker monsters, and have come up with similar damage ranges.. but have also discovered a few more things. I think i have determined the actual damage difference between Mind Blast and Magic Thunder now. I believe that damage is an 8 point difference. Theoretically, if Mind Blast hits for 100-120 damage, Magic Thunder should hit for 108-128.

Here is another table i worked up, like the first one i do not consider it complete, but you can certainly see trends in it. I arranged the monsters according to their perceived level, and damage taken. I am under the impression that if i spent more time filling this table out, it would show that the DIFF in damage between MIN and MAX per monster is 20 on all of em in the table. (Could be wrong though, ittook forever to find the 20 DIFF using ice on the Poyo Poyo)

Will edit the original post eventually if i can, and update it when ive got more finalized information.

Level 34 INT = 24+2 Magic = 40+71

MIN MAX DIFF AVG Magic
Poyo Poyo 180 200 20 190 Mind
Para Rabbit 177 196 19 186.5 Mind
Big Kubby 175 194 19 184.5 Mind
Mame Egg 172 190 18 181 Mind
Giant Poyo Poyo 170 189 19 179.5 Mind

MIN MAX DIFF AVG Magic
Poyo Poyo 188 208 20 198 Thunder
Para Rabbit 184 204 20 194 Thunder
Big Kubby 182 202 20 192 Thunder
Mame Egg 179 198 19 188.5 Thunder
Giant Poyo Poyo 177 196 19 186.5 Thunder

[Darcaen]

Before i begin, does anyone know how much +1 magic actually increases damage? It seems to increase damage by 2 points, as tested by equipping rings and fighting the same monsters. Im still in the process of testing this myself, but if anyone knew for sure, that would save some time. :)
I have tested this, and it is not always 2 points. I am guessing that the numbers we see are not exact integers.

[narutofan4evur]

thats not always true your statistics are all wrong becaue the difference of the magic thunder and mind blast varies between both wis. and int.

[carlky]

thats not always true your statistics are all wrong becaue the difference of the magic thunder and mind blast varies between both wis. and int.

err... im bored so i happen to read this.. but dont you think its rude to say its wrong w/o showing some kind of data or something...

@threadstarter

errm your data is good and all but you have too much free time on your hands.. lol.. ^_^

[zazn_thug]

I would say magic thunder is better. Mind blast is more conservative, but when you are trying to kill in pvp, you want the other person to die fast before they can heal. Mind blast may be more conservative and do more damage in the long run, but for Dps purposes, it isn't helpful. The range on magic thunder is better also so you won't have to get as near to the enemy, which means more distance for you to run if needed. From mine experience, mages who stay in the back and take too long to kill end up getting killed by the opposing archer/mages. But this is just PvP of course and not really lvling purposes.

[vergex2]

Sorry for the thread necro, but I just wanted to point out a few things:

As the OP stated, Mind Blast does indeed have a better mana / performance ratio, but what he doesn't factor in is that Magic Thunder is a more versatile skill. It seems to cast marginally faster, have faster cooldown, and longer range. Those facts alone could mean less damage taken from monsters, reducing Mind Blasts' actual 'price benefit'.

Just my two cents.

[Darcaen]

There is also regeneration over time to be considered. Some monsters regenerate fast. A slower kill might mean having to use ice more or allowing for more regeneration.

[Beatnic_Jett]

>,> MAGIC FIRE
>,>
ftw forget both of themmm