Frost - Retarded skill?

[Deviot_Aviot]

For Binders, our main objective is to do extra dmg yet not to get hit...

but:

1.frost's area is quite small, forcing us nearer to the mob

2.The cool-down time is longer than the effect, this is maybe the biggest turn-off for a binder

so give me your opinions, gm feedbacks will be appreciated

[opensunflowers]

Aren't all cooldown times longer than the effect?
This prevents you from constantly freezing the target

[Kayarine]

The cooldown isn't that bad, we just need to run off screen before frost wears off. (Yeah this can only be done when helping someone else AoE or in a party being attacked by 2-3 aggros)
The worst is when I use Frost when I'm being mobbed and my char runs toward the mobs even if I'm not very far from them. -.-

[notFire]

Frost'r radius actually isnt that bad. It's actually somewhat easy to use Frost and NOT take a hit, it just takes some practice, and maybe a little luck as well. And by the time you have completed the AOE cycle (Frost, Lightning, Lightning, Run Like Crazy), the cooldown for Frost is usually over, or very close to it.

And "Frost" and "Retarded" in the same sentence is like, some form of blasphemy. Frost MAY and probably WILL save your life on numerous occasions.

And Yes, Taney, the cooldown for skills like Frost are longer than the effect, or else we'd see Mages AOE-ing.

[ggBuRNe]

Frost is a GOOD skill especially for aoe and to protect yourself and your teammate.. The radius is the same as any other aoe skills such as lightning and icicle.. Don't look at the animation because the radius is not exact as the animation on screen.. Same as volcano, you will see that the radius is small but actually it is the same as any other aoe skill..

Frost can greatly slow down the mobs for 6s (same as magic ice) which is enough for you to save yourself and your party.. If you want to use it to aoe with lightning skill, this is the remedy: Magic Shield, frost, lightning, lightning, lightning, run away from screen, frost, lightning 3x, run, frost, repeat.. For risk taker you may use 3 lightning but I would suggest 2 lightning in order to have more time to run.. 3 lightning will attract mobs towards you and if you are not fast enough, you will die.. I usually take 3 lightning because the mobs will hit me as low as misses, 1 or 2 damage after magic shield, and even if my shield is broken, I have enough time to frost again.. Addition of +6 6ap and +3 movement speed from shoes really helps a lot.. If you don't have good gear, 2 lightning is the best to go and make sure you run away from the screen after that..

I remembered that I said the same like any mages that Frost was sux but after I get used to it, it is the best so far xD.. Don't worry, you will get use it after a while...

[Deviot_Aviot]

Frost'r radius actually isnt that bad. It's actually somewhat easy to use Frost and NOT take a hit, it just takes some practice, and maybe a little luck as well. And by the time you have completed the AOE cycle (Frost, Lightning, Lightning, Run Like Crazy"]), the cooldown for Frost is usually over, or very close to it.

And "Frost" and "Retarded" in the same sentence is like, some form of blasphemy. Frost MAY and probably WILL save your life on numerous occasions.

And Yes, Taney, the cooldown for skills like Frost are longer than the effect, or else we'd see Mages AOE-ing.[/COLOR]

AND WHY?
may i ask, that as binders, we need to run like crazy?
here's an aoe party (complete with binders) and their chances of dying

Knight = one with highest def, the mob collector
chance of dying = less than 10%, only a certain type of mobs in the map could do a high enough damage to kill him in 30+ hits...10/17dmg etc.

Aco = healer, low def...help regaining health points and giving buff for the aoers...
Chances of dying = less than 30% don't usually attract agros, also less chances of dying as they only would need to heal and not attack any monsters

Rouge = same as knight, mob collector
Chance of dying = less then 5%, high dodge rate, has ability to invins when things go wrong

Scout = Binder, deals high damage and slows aoe mob down with brambleway
chances of dying = less then 40%, they have high movement speed which can be benefited when running from aoe mobs gone harewire, mobs are also kept at a further distant from the scout as brambleway can be targeted...and i think bramble actually LASTS longer than frost?

Mage :\ = Binder, deals high damage, and slows aoe mob down with frost
chances of dying = MORE than 50% slow movement rate compared to scouts, needs to get closer to mob unlike bramble way, magic shield is totally rendered useless when mobbed as it dies in 7 damn hits...

[Deviot_Aviot]

Frost is a GOOD skill especially for aoe and to protect yourself and your teammate.. The radius is the same as any other aoe skills such as lightning and icicle.. Don't look at the animation because the radius is not exact as the animation on screen.. Same as volcano, you will see that the radius is small but actually it is the same as any other aoe skill..

Frost can greatly slow down the mobs for 6s (same as magic ice) which is enough for you to save yourself and your party.. If you want to use it to aoe with lightning skill, this is the remedy: Magic Shield, frost, lightning, lightning, lightning, run away from screen, frost, lightning 3x, run, frost, repeat.. For risk taker you may use 3 lightning but I would suggest 2 lightning in order to have more time to run.. 3 lightning will attract mobs towards you and if you are not fast enough, you will die.. I usually take 3 lightning because the mobs will hit me as low as misses, 1 or 2 damage after magic shield, and even if my shield is broken, I have enough time to frost again.. Addition of +6 6ap and +3 movement speed from shoes really helps a lot.. If you don't have good gear, 2 lightning is the best to go and make sure you run away from the screen after that..

I remembered that I said the same like any mages that Frost was sux but after I get used to it, it is the best so far xD.. Don't worry, you will get use it after a while...

Sry for the double post, but i was greatly amused that you had only compared Frost with skills from the same class....d

[notFire]

honestly, if you die so often while AOEing, you very simply arent doing it right

I was one of the very first AOE Mages, and learned the many ins and outs of frost and lightning, and how to use them efficiently. There are two things that are certain while AOEing...

1) you WILL attract mobs with your skills

2) you WILL die if you get too close

so my advice, dont complain about the skills, learn to use them, learn the ins and outs, and how to keep yourself alive. Learn to be EFFECTIVE, and your chances of survival will improve greatly.

And as for your "chances at survival" thing... its not the class, its the player. If you are careless, you die, if you are attentive and utilize your abilities to a good extent, you live.

[ggBuRNe]

Sry for the double post, but i was greatly amused that you had only compared Frost with skills from the same class....d
honestly, if you die so often while AOEing, you very simply arent doing it right

I was one of the very first AOE Mages, and learned the many ins and outs of frost and lightning, and how to use them efficiently. There are two things that are certain while AOEing...

1) you WILL attract mobs with your skills

2) you WILL die if you get too close

so my advice, dont complain about the skills, learn to use them, learn the ins and outs, and how to keep yourself alive. Learn to be EFFECTIVE, and your chances of survival will improve greatly.

And as for your "chances at survival" thing... its not the class, its the player. If you are careless, you die, if you are attentive and utilize your abilities to a good extent, you live.

Why do I have to compare with other classes since our class has the best AoE skills.. You complain too much, complain about this about that.. I know that we are underpowered but in terms your argument about aoe, it doesn't make much sense at all.. You said you died too much.. You expect what?? to get hit 1 damage all the time like knight while using frost and lightning?? I aoed many times but I still don't have any complain about it.. What you have to do is to utilize your skill effectively just like Fire said..


Scout = Binder, deals high damage and slows aoe mob down with brambleway
chances of dying = less then 40%, they have high movement speed which can be benefited when running from aoe mobs gone harewire, mobs are also kept at a further distant from the scout as brambleway can be targeted...and i think bramble actually LASTS longer than frost?

Dying is part of learning.. Look at other classes, their aoe skills are weak.. Brambleway cause the mobs to scatter and the effect last for 6s (ask other scouts or archer), Reticle is pathetically weak, Wild Swing is useless if you don't have good armor, Evil Dead is weak and have 1s cooldown.. If you die too much, then stop aoeing and solo..

I don't want to dis encourage you but you talk like you know everything about our class.. Be patient and learn slowly from all the experience.. Our aoe skills are the best in game and I have stated many times in my thread Underpowered Mages/Wizards and other posts.. It only useless after lvl 102 where everyone can't aoe but I found out ashkai is able to aoe phil and taq.. so our skills are still the best..

Utilise your skill effectively, be patient and get use to it.. ANYONE who doesn't know how to utilise their skills will die easily no matter at what class or lvl!!

[Deviot_Aviot]

Why do I have to compare with other classes since our class has the best AoE skills.. You complain too much, complain about this about that.. I know that we are underpowered but in terms your argument about aoe, it doesn't make much sense at all.. You said you died too much.. You expect what?? to get hit 1 damage all the time like knight while using frost and lightning?? I aoed many times but I still don't have any complain about it.. What you have to do is to utilize your skill effectively just like Fire said..



Dying is part of learning.. Look at other classes, their aoe skills are weak.. Brambleway cause the mobs to scatter and the effect last for 6s (ask other scouts or archer), Reticle is pathetically weak, Wild Swing is useless if you don't have good armor, Evil Dead is weak and have 1s cooldown.. If you die too much, then stop aoeing and solo..

I don't want to dis encourage you but you talk like you know everything about our class.. Be patient and learn slowly from all the experience.. Our aoe skills are the best in game and I have stated many times in my thread Underpowered Mages/Wizards and other posts.. It only useless after lvl 102 where everyone can't aoe but I found out ashkai is able to aoe phil and taq.. so our skills are still the best..

Utilise your skill effectively, be patient and get use to it.. ANYONE who doesn't know how to utilise their skills will die easily no matter at what class or lvl!!


Well, maybe you're right...
duo aoed with a squire today, it turned out pleasantly and i did not die but once *attempted to cast lightning 5 times*

but would it hurt for them to improve it just a little? ><
2 secs is ample time for us to get killed.

btw...Liightning can't be used in pvp...
a bug?

[ggBuRNe]

btw...Liightning can't be used in pvp...
a bug?

it is not a bug.. aoe that requires everyone to cast(aim) on ground does not work.. Only aoe upon pressing hot key without aiming on ground such as asoe around yourself is working.. ie reticle trap, icicle, lightning doesn't work.. wild swing, frost, dead lock, fire swing, circle trap, volcano are working..

[kdragono]

i should be getting lightning today, hopefully, and i have been training west of cv, about two maps, do u think it would be a good idea to try and aoe there? im gona have an aco with me and i dont plan on having big mobs, just maybe 3 or 4 monsters at a time until i get the hang of it.
just hoping for some advise.

[ggBuRNe]

huh if you can take less than 30 damage then it is fine i guess.. Use magic shield before mobbing and the damage will reduce by 30 damage or more for lvl 1 shield..

[kdragono]

yea my friend is doing aoes there so im gona help every few hits with it till i get the hang of it.
tyvm =^_^=

[Deviot_Aviot]

yea my friend is doing aoes there so im gona help every few hits with it till i get the hang of it.
tyvm =^_^=

Not Advisable...
we can't aoe at lvl 65 and below unless we have awsome gears or until magic shield is fixed,

your 'friend' whom i assume is a squire would most likely be collecting 20+ mobs and when you lightning, most of the mobs turns to you, without frost, its certain doom since your magic shield would falter in 7 hits...but you can try, like they say, 'seeing is believing' ;)

but at lvl 66+ we can Asist aoe with frost... its certainly safer when the mob is slowed down, but there's a drawback; the cooldown time is longer than the casting time for frost. which gives the mob a two secs chance to kill you... so i'll suggest you continue to grind as usual ~.~

[AnimePimp66]

well i dunno i still beleive a determained app can aoe by lv 60 i still havent found a guineh pig app to deck out with insane enhanced gears

[Deviot_Aviot]

woot!! i would be the piggy....
(provided i get to keep the gears ;))

[Kayarine]

Lol you aren't even an app anymore... <.<
XD

And the assist aoe thing is simple, you just need to frost, use lightning 2 times (or just 1 if you're slow to run like me >.<) then run off screen, come back and frost again... The problem is finding someone that wants a binder in their aoe party. T.T

[kdragono]

yea thats true but i dont have frost yet, so what i have been doing (and it really works XD) is when the mob is about two hits from being dead i use lightning to finish killing them, only a few go after me but i hit them again before they get a chance to hit me.
it works great and yes my friend is a squire, hes only 1 lvl higher than me but we have found a good map to do this little aoe project in ^^

[Deviot_Aviot]

o.o...then you might as well be leeching ~.~

[AnimePimp66]

eh i did the same thing with my disc buddys in skitchy they lemme hit mob right b4 it was dead. made me so exited and anxious to b a mage i already knew what i was gonna do with frost to assist aoe :D. to bad my favorate templer duo dont log on anymore D:

[Deviot_Aviot]

to bad my favorate templer duo dont log on anymore D:

another case of quitted friends...
Where art the ones that made my game fun in lvl 37-49 times? T.T

[kdragono]

its not leeching if im in the sv when he attacks them first, and i do kill them also, my attack is the last one we use, so i am helping to kill and get they exp instead of just leeching. i dont like leeching anyway.
but i did find out that if i have two acos with me i can aoe 3 monsters in rud.
doesnt sound all that big, but for a lvl 56 app with just lightning, i think its pretty good.

[Deviot_Aviot]

its not leeching if im in the sv when he attacks them first, and i do kill them also, my attack is the last one we use, so i am helping to kill and get they exp instead of just leeching. i dont like leeching anyway.
but i did find out that if i have two acos with me i can aoe 3 monsters in rud.
doesnt sound all that big, but for a lvl 56 app with just lightning, i think its pretty good.

O.O instead of rud, try aoeing bailey with one aco?...much more monsters you can take and more exp + drops >w< (have you the cloak of love?)

[xyangster]

Scout = Binder, deals high damage and slows aoe mob down with brambleway
chances of dying = less then 40%, they have high movement speed which can be benefited when running from aoe mobs gone harewire, mobs are also kept at a further distant from the scout as brambleway can be targeted...and i think bramble actually LASTS longer than frost?

Mage :\ = Binder, deals high damage, and slows aoe mob down with frost
chances of dying = MORE than 50% slow movement rate compared to scouts, needs to get closer to mob unlike bramble way, magic shield is totally rendered useless when mobbed as it dies in 7 damn hits...


This confuses me. How do scouts have higher movement speeds than mages? At class change to scout, the movement speed is raised to 20 from 19. Mages, on the other hand, get 21 movement speed at the lvl 66 level change. So between lvl 66 and 80, mages actually have higher default movement speed than scouts. If scouts seem faster, it's probably because of either SC items like the rabbit ears or the imp tail or because the enhancement on their shoes is higher.

Finally, bramble seems to have the same duration and cool-down as frost, and, even though it's targeted, the range is fairly low. So whenever I use it, it also pulls me (uncomfortably) close to the mobs.

[AnimePimp66]

na mage and scout aoes have same cooldowns were meant to work together to assist tank in aoe with percision timing :D

[xyangster]

na mage and scout aoes have same cooldowns were meant to work together to assist tank in aoe with percision timing :D

lol I remember you trying to teach me this "precision timing" of yours :D

p.s. check your forum pm's, ani D:< (I'm stuck in an airport and it's midnight here and and and bored -.-)

[ZAPDOS21]

pss... frost is a skill to let u die wen mobed D; as foger told bramble let me run n from large distanse take em all n keep runing whit a 0% to get hit (if u are skilled) any whay i can bramble-resicle trap-run n bramble again, so i rarely get hit. btw b careful wen aoeing 2 close mob cause death D;

[ggBuRNe]

haha as long as i look good in your sig, everything is fine.. hahah.. I'm so good looking bebeh.. lol

[DarkAngelTsubasa]

I hav got a lame noobie question, i cant seem to use magic shield >.>
Do u all kno how? *yeah i admit i m still a noob to this game*

[ggBuRNe]

I hav got a lame noobie question, i cant seem to use magic shield >.>
Do u all kno how? *yeah i admit i m still a noob to this game*

you need magical tonic to use it.. you can buy it at any general item store..

[Redinel]

Can't add much to what already have been said but yeah it's hard to aoe before 66 where we get frost skill. Still if we find good aoe party we may let archer either scout use bramble and then support them with lightening if we are below 66 - kinda common thing.

Plus yup, combination that Foger said about is definetly the best (talking from my own experience and deaths that I encountered xD)

[ggBuRNe]

Thank you..

When I read back at my previous post, God I was meanie >.<

I am sorry if I was meanie with my posts.. sry about it.. Hope you guys take it easily and take as an advise.. xD :D