Things Seem to Have Changed...

[Celtic_Princess]

I'm looking around the forums, bored at work as usual, and it seems like every thread I find has some sort of disrespectful comment attached to it. Excuse my rant, but I feel like these things need to be put forth:

I myself have been around for a while, not as long as some, a lot more than others...and I've found that no server is better than another. Each server has a lot of brilliant players and a few bad apples who give them a bad reputation.
I've also found that no class is particularly better than another. Sure, some have more bugs and issues than another that need to be fixed, but each has its advantage and all of them have their downfalls. It is each individuals right to post regarding this subject, to say what they would like to see with their class and what needs to be fixed but to blame those issues on another class is just silly.

The idea of this game was for it to be a party game, for you to get to know the community and to work together. But there's so much emphasis on 'I know how to play your character better than you do' that at some points its just not fun anymore. I will note that in a KQ it is important for party members to play the roles that they were originially intended to play. But outside of that area, your character is your character, and no one should be telling you what you can and cannot do with your character build.
I find that I cannot walk through Elderine without hearing the words "noob" and "stfu" at least 5 times. If you have an issue with another player, avoid them, if they're violating the ToS take a screenie and report them, or keep your arguement in PM. When you argue over shout it brings down the entire community, and you are almost guaranteed to get about five more people taking part in what is probably a silly arguement.

I know there are great people in this gaming community, they are the main reason I stay. Maybe people are getting to comfortable with each other but people are starting to cross lines and boundaries in the things that they say to one another. If you chose to read this, thank you, if you choose to react to it, I hope its positive. I've seen several threads that started out with good intent end up getting flamed or disrespectful simply because they're 'tired of hearing it.' Well I'm sorry, if you are tired of hearing this stuff, don't continue to read my post and move to something else.
I know I'm going to get a few responses of "thats not me, and thats not the people I pt with"...thats wonderful, thank you for being polite and corteous, but this is for those who are not.
I want those people to realize that they should be respectful not only because hurtful, derogatory, offensive, or racist comments are against the ToS but simply because they are talking to real people with real back grounds that they know nothing about. And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

I would love to hear your comments, or suggestions on how we can improve the gaming community here. Please do not flame this thread, I'm not targeting anyone in particular..just making an observation.

[AParadiseLost]

OP YoU are ProaCtIve.

AnD i like it.

I will respond wheN I caN, with more time and thoughtfuLness.

AlthOUgh everyoNe knows The beSt Class is NPC. ImPossible To Kill, Unlimited Money. In addition, the NPC is the Best Player. Buy Low, Sell High. Monopolize! Best Server? BETA...AcroNym. Not SequeNtial. Dont MisRead ><

[qwan1]

I'm looking around the forums, bored at work as usual, and it seems like every thread I find has some sort of disrespectful comment attached to it. Excuse my rant, but I feel like these things need to be put forth:

I myself have been around for a while, not as long as some, a lot more than others...and I've found that no server is better than another. Each server has a lot of brilliant players and a few bad apples who give them a bad reputation.
I've also found that no class is particularly better than another. Sure, some have more bugs and issues than another that need to be fixed, but each has its advantage and all of them have their downfalls. It is each individuals right to post regarding this subject, to say what they would like to see with their class and what needs to be fixed but to blame those issues on another class is just silly.

The idea of this game was for it to be a party game, for you to get to know the community and to work together. But there's so much emphasis on 'I know how to play your character better than you do' that at some points its just not fun anymore. I will note that in a KQ it is important for party members to play the roles that they were originially intended to play. But outside of that area, your character is your character, and no one should be telling you what you can and cannot do with your character build.
I find that I cannot walk through Elderine without hearing the words "noob" and "stfu" at least 5 times. If you have an issue with another player, avoid them, if they're violating the ToS take a screenie and report them, or keep your arguement in PM. When you argue over shout it brings down the entire community, and you are almost guaranteed to get about five more people taking part in what is probably a silly arguement.

I know there are great people in this gaming community, they are the main reason I stay. Maybe people are getting to comfortable with each other but people are starting to cross lines and boundaries in the things that they say to one another. If you chose to read this, thank you, if you choose to react to it, I hope its positive. I've seen several threads that started out with good intent end up getting flamed or disrespectful simply because they're 'tired of hearing it.' Well I'm sorry, if you are tired of hearing this stuff, don't continue to read my post and move to something else.
I know I'm going to get a few responses of "thats not me, and thats not the people I pt with"...thats wonderful, thank you for being polite and corteous, but this is for those who are not.
I want those people to realize that they should be respectful not only because hurtful, derogatory, offensive, or racist comments are against the ToS but simply because they are talking to real people with real back grounds that they know nothing about. And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

I would love to hear your comments, or suggestions on how we can improve the gaming community here. Please do not flame this thread, I'm not targeting anyone in particular..just making an observation.

noob, stfu.

:D

[EriAeris]

well... maybe they should have like warning +Reps...

3 of them... and You'll get BANNED!!!!!!

Oh and in your Thread...

If someone passes my line... I'm just suggesting them to get behind it or else you'll be behind bars!

[Celtic_Princess]

noob, stfu.

:D

Exhibit A- thanks for being an example qwan :)

[EriAeris]

Exhibit A- thanks for being an example qwan :)

LOL! ^this girl^

[KateeHellen]

noob, stfu.

:D

People like him are very similar to Spanish Inquisition... nobody expect them :D, and when they show up usually they have nothing to say about topic... but just spam, spam, spam.
I am sorry for those Monty Python remarks but to be honest i give up attempt to turn river of chaos using wooden stick.
From my observation <and not only in game but in real life as well> such foul language replaced language we known as synonym of good manners.
Sometimes when i walk through city and hear what language used 12 years old kids i am simply shock but for them this is absolutely normal language witch they use everyday in school and home.
I known that here in Fiesta we can we can block such person or report him for using extremaly harsh language but even if that person will gone six others will replace him in very short period of time.
If they have not been teach in thier houses that such language IS very "unplesant" then why they will lisening our argumentation?
And i am more as sure that in return for our effort to educate them we will recive response in quoted style...
You may ask... "Then should we give up and let them use such language?"
Of course not but from my point of view this is almoust Mission Impossible.

[EriAeris]

really... no targeting anyone right...

oh and one more thing...

What's flaming?

[JohnNitro]

I seem to notice the samethings.....'


I'm here a lot, but now work is cutting into my time but I say active on my site about fiesta.....

You can check it out, and see if it helps.

From I gather it seems people are out for the summer..

[Gravvi]

Ok I got the first post but the others really lost me...

I suggest that the GM/GL get online more and crack the whips on people more. Or get some GL's for every hour of the day so we don't have to SS, report and wait for something. But if the GL/GM's are on at all times they can come experience it themselves.

I mean GL/GMs are here to make sure things are running smooth and to make our gameplay better. I have not been playing much but when i used to play at all hours of the day...I never saw and GL or GM that were actually At their keyboards.

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

stfu, noobs.

Reported...jerk.

On topic though you have alot of good points hun, youve deffenitly changed the way Ive thought of things after I read it. ^^

[KateeHellen]

really... no targeting anyone right...

oh and one more thing...

What's flaming?

AD 1: No i speak about general situation without pointing at anyone<well maybe exept that person who aparently known only that two words...>
And flaming... when you post something about second person or guild and intentionally try to picture him/her in very bad light that is mean flaming.

[qwan1]

seriously, your vision of the perfect world only exists in Orwell novels. I think the community in this game is already nicer than that of the general internet populace so I really can't ask for more. Besides, the OP is clearly exaggerating as I am in Elderine right now "strolling" and I don't see 'stfu' nor 'noobs' being thrown around.

So lets call off this little tea party and be a little less sensitive. As this post shows, people clearly lack the understanding of sarcasm / satire. No matter how Fiesta is aimed towards a younger public, it does not change the fact that this is an online gaming experience.

Personally I would be freaked out of my behind if everyone is so "XD" and ":3" and >)!!! that there is 0 drama and antagonism in this game.

[Celtic_Princess]

seriously, your vision of the perfect world only exists in Orwell novels. I think the community in this game is already nicer than that of the general internet populace so I really can't ask for more. Besides, the OP is clearly exaggerating as I am in Elderine right now "strolling" and I don't see 'stfu' nor 'noobs' being thrown around.

So lets call off this little tea party and be a little less sensitive. As this post shows, people clearly lack the understanding of sarcasm / satire. No matter how Fiesta is aimed towards a younger public, it does not change the fact that this is an online gaming experience.

Personally I would be freaked out of my behind if everyone is so "XD" and ":3" and >)!!! that there is 0 drama and antagonism in this game.

Yeah this community is a lot nicer than most, but that doesn't mean that common courtesy should be tossed out the window because other gaming communities are worse.

And I don't know what server you play on but its incredibly common to hear the word noob thrown around. In every map, at any point in the game.

At no point did I say that situations won't arise and that words won't be tossed around, I merely suggested that if you do have a problem with a player keep it to PM instead of shout where it inevitably grows.

As for this little tea party my dear you did not have to join it. You have voiced your opinion and I respect you for that. But I ask that you do so in respectful terms. A lot of things are said to people in game that they would surely not say to them face to face, and the anonimity of a computer monitor shouldn't give them that right.

I'm not saying we all hold hands have have a sing along around the statues of eldy but I am saying that a little common courtesy goes a long way. And that as a mature adult, or a maturing teenager each and every individual here is more than capable of doing so. Including you. If you're going to respond to my post, please do so in a respectful manner with a little less of your 'sarcasm'.

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

seriously, your vision of the perfect world only exists in Orwell novels. I think the community in this game is already nicer than that of the general internet populace so I really can't ask for more. Besides, the OP is clearly exaggerating as I am in Elderine right now "strolling" and I don't see 'stfu' nor 'noobs' being thrown around.

So lets call off this little tea party and be a little less sensitive. As this post shows, people clearly lack the understanding of sarcasm / satire. No matter how Fiesta is aimed towards a younger public, it does not change the fact that this is an online gaming experience.

Personally I would be freaked out of my behind if everyone is so "XD" and ":3" and >)!!! that there is 0 drama and antagonism in this game.

Lol...not just a spammer o.O

[qwan1]

Sure, a little courtesy goes a long way... for you. But being mature adults ourselves, if I may presume, we must accept the fact that not everyone in the game will abide by the "courtesy", which to you seem like common understanding. When people see these "noob-callers" as detrimental to their gaming experience truly has to unplug their hole.

I do not appreciate rude behavior. However, I am more bewildered by the individuals who seek vindication against those with rude behaviors. The fact that you want a player who probably worked just as hard getting to a high level like you banned just because he/she failed to fit your profile as a model "FiestaCitizen" is more sickening.

If admins catch them and ban them, then fine. This is a private game in their private little world and they have the right to do anything they want. But it's none of your beeswax : )

[KateeHellen]

Again "This is only Game" excuse is voiced.
I fully agree whit Celtic_Princess and furthermore how we can sort out sarcasm from serious statement when we can only read text and we do not hear voice melody?
You my say "you noob..." whit intention as a joke<poor taste but still> BUT when you type such word then first interpretation of such is as an insult and before you will have chance to explain usually is to late...
"Let us become less sensitive..." you say, then i wonder what you will say when people start to use such foul language 24/7 and we wont be able to move through city not to hear any sort of foul spamm...
Maybe i am wrong but for many people showing any form of good manners and courtesy is a sign of weakness... but IF synonym of being "Cool"<or Kool whit all variants of this word> is usage word F between every single word or calling all around noobs not to mention acting in a way well known as false then i do not want to be cool :D...

[Celtic_Princess]

Sure, a little courtesy goes a long way... for you. But being mature adults ourselves, if I may presume, we must accept the fact that not everyone in the game will abide by the "courtesy", which to you seem like common understanding. When people see these "noob-callers" as detrimental to their gaming experience truly has to unplug their hole.

I do not appreciate rude behavior. However, I am more bewildered by the individuals who seek vindication against those with rude behaviors. The fact that you want a player who probably worked just as hard getting to a high level like you banned just because he/she failed to fit your profile as a model "FiestaCitizen" is more sickening.

If admins catch them and ban them, then fine. This is a private game in their private little world and they have the right to do anything they want. But it's none of your beeswax : )

As a child I'm sure you were taught the difference between right and wrong. And so has just about everyone else. I understand that not everyone in this game will listen to what I have to say and that my words alone are not going to stop everyone from being rude.

While it can be considered unfair the ideal behind reporting someone who's saying degrading, racist, or vulgar things is that when they chose to make the comment they chose to violate their ToS. Knowing full well the possible consequences. I'm not saying that a ss should be sent for every little thing but it is a way of conserving the 'family' oriented status of this game.

You, I, and everyone else with an account here legally agreed to abide by a certain set of rules and a certain code of conduct. It doesn't take a lot to be polite. A simple thank you here, or a please there, or a 'I respect where you're coming from here's where I disagree' isn't really a lot to ask.

I respect that you disagree, but this thread was simply my way of saying that the community I started with back in November has changed a lot with the influx of newer gamers. And not all of the changes have been positive. I'd like outspark to remain an 'nicer' place than other gaming communities and I don't really understand how you seem to think that a little common courtesy is asking too much of people who have already been taught through parents, schools and real life communities that such rude behavior is not ok. Why is the internet allowed to be any different? Why are manners suddenly wiped out when you log onto a game or forum? And since when was it ever considered okay to tell some one to stfu?

To your last point: yes, they can do whatever they want in their own private little world, but in shout on a game, or in a forum it no longer becomes by legal definition private. It is then open to the public- and so yes, it becomes other peoples 'beeswax'.

[Shadowic2]

This game is in no way private considering it is open to the public and free to play.

Players do not have the right to do whatever they wish in-game. They must keep their bounds within the ToS, which everyone agreed to upon making an account.

So one just cannot agree to that contract, and then waltz around in-game harassing players, dropping rude remarks to people, and think they can get away with it because it's no one's business, or that they worked hard to get to a certain level.

Hardwork and levels put towards the game is by no means no excuse for people behaving in ways that violate the ToS and disrupt the game for others.

The GMs and Admins can't be around in-game at all times to monitor all of the people who can't behave themselves. They rely on the community to report these players.

[qwan1]

... what? >_>

I'm sure when you grow up you'll know Kate. I thought if I posted "noob, stfu" right after the OP strongly voiced against the exact phrase is easily detectable joke/satire but apparently I forgot not everyone is into semantics.

I apologize =)

...

Want to join hands and dance around the elderine statue?

[qwan1]

This game is in no way private considering it is open to the public and free to play.

Players do not have the right to do whatever they wish in-game. They must keep their bounds within the ToS, which everyone agreed to upon making an account.

So one just cannot agree to that contract, and then waltz around in-game harassing players, dropping rude remarks to people, and think they can get away with it because it's no one's business, or that they worked hard to get to a certain level.

Hardwork and levels put towards the game is by no means no excuse for people behaving in ways that violate the ToS and disrupt the game for others.

The GMs and Admins can't be around in-game at all times to monitor all of the people who can't behave themselves. They rely on the community to report these players.

Yes, the game is private. Meaning the United States or whatever government has no control over the game's governing policies. Its just like a casino. If for some bizarre reason the game chose to not let Asian players play, they are technically legally allowed to do so. That's what I meant by private. -_-

Do you think the community players report people because they are really that offended OR do you think people report because they like to see others get banned? Now you can have a little philosophy case there :cool:

edit: Of course if a person persist to cause constant disruption or spam, it may truly disrupt others' gaming experience and may call for a ban. But I sure hope the admins aren't like you, where a single case of "stfu, noob" is enough for you to drop the golden hammer.

My point is made! Have a good evening and enjoy Fiesta (as in, dont get bothered too much).

[KateeHellen]

... what? >_>

I'm sure when you grow up you'll know Kate. I thought if I posted "noob, stfu" right after the OP strongly voiced against the exact phrase is easily detectable joke/satire but apparently I forgot not everyone is into semantics.

I apologize =)

...

Want to join hands and dance around the elderine statue?

*sigh... *
I live long in off on this world to known many<and perhaps too many> aspects how that world works and i known also one thing.
Cursing <and no matter if you use soft words like noob or hard like stufu and many many others> IS something that i will never accep as something good.
Allowance for such acting may lead only to anarchy and destruction of community.

[Celtic_Princess]

Yes, the game is private. Meaning the United States or whatever government has no control over the game's governing policies. Its just like a casino. If for some bizarre reason the game chose to not let Asian players play, they are technically legally allowed to do so. That's what I meant by private. -_-

Do you think the community players report people because they are really that offended OR do you think people report because they like to see others get banned? Now you can have a little philosophy case there :cool:

Short of the Privacy act of 1974 that governs the disclosure of personal information collected through this website it is not private. Outspark is a business and it provides a service, Outspark and its users must still answer to governing law. Which is why certain rules are set forth in the Terms of Service.
Furthermore, any sumission to the Outspark site becomes property of Outspark for them to use at their discretion.

[KateeHellen]

I would not be so sure that some US Goverment institution do not monitorig Fiesta... <Since this is potential hunt area for child predators>.
And Fiesta is NOT our private game because we do not own a spark rights to her, Fiesta IS and always will ONLY Outspark's private property...

[kalone]

Well firstly I would like to say that... I have nothing to say. Good job on the post. You've said everything you could've said.

But I would like to say that there are always these sorts of people. People of all kind. Their personality will not change over a persuasive post on a forum. All attempts to thwart this kind of behaviour, such as qwan1's exhibit A, are sadly futile.

However we as a community can help, the more socially skilled and accepted, can bring down this level of degradation in which these people have put down on us. We will avoid arguments and, at best, try to avoid arguments with idiots.

[Serric]

What the....?

First off, everyone needs to be respectful towards one another. If they are not, they are subject to punishment. That is the beauty of the digital world vs the real word. Out there, people can be as rude as they want to as many people as they want and little beyond a shout out or fistfight can be done. Here, however, if things become too inflammatory we can quiet it down. And we will.

It's summer. While many people are out and about doing RL things there are those that come here from boredom, etc. and want to stir things up. We've seen them all and I doubt we've seen the last. That's why the CL program was initiated - to help keep things from going berserk and allow the CSRs, GMs, etc to do their jobs.

Qwan, I understand your point, as shocking as that may be. However, I ask that you, or anyone, refrains from being inflammatory for the sake of "drama". Every protagonist needs an antagonist, this is true - but try to remember we are all part of a community here, each with our own roles to play and each with expectations of behavior placed upon us.

Remember, if you can’t stop splashing in the pool, you’ll be asked to take a time out. If that doesn't work... we have other means to ensure the common peace here. >:3

[Lythari]

I'm honestly getting tired of hearing about people whining over nothing. I understand people need to vent, but there are appropriate times and places for that. The community is one reason why I'm thinking of quitting. I'm tired of having to bite my tongue just because someone else can't hold theirs. Honestly, there have been a few things people have said that flat p!ssed me off. It's actually getting harder and harder for me to find a reason to log on lately.

What I'd like to say in a nutshell:

1. Grow up. The world is an imperfect place. Learn some tolerance and get over stuff instead of crying about it in a melodramatic public display.

2. Don't always assume the worst about people. Tone is difficult to read in text based communication, and what you assume was rude, may not have been intended as such.

3. Think before you speak. Would the person you are addressing appreciate the comment?

4. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. If someone gets under your skin or you are just having an off day, that's not something the rest of the world needs to know about. If you need to talk to someone about it, PM a friend. Don't make an inflammatory rant over it.

5. Have fun. It's a game. It's supposed to help you relax and unwind. As soon as it stops being fun, it's time to walk away.

6. Be a team player and look out for others.

[heavensraven]

I'm honestly getting tired of hearing about people whining over nothing. I understand people need to vent, but there are appropriate times and places for that. The community is one reason why I'm thinking of quitting. I'm tired of having to bite my tongue just because someone else can't hold theirs. Honestly, there have been a few things people have said that flat p!ssed me off. It's actually getting harder and harder for me to find a reason to log on lately.

What I'd like to say in a nutshell:

1. Grow up. The world is an imperfect place. Learn some tolerance and get over stuff instead of crying about it in a melodramatic public display.

2. Don't always assume the worst about people. Tone is difficult to read in text based communication, and what you assume was rude, may not have been intended as such.

3. Think before you speak. Would the person you are addressing appreciate the comment?

4. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. If someone gets under your skin or you are just having an off day, that's not something the rest of the world needs to know about. If you need to talk to someone about it, PM a friend. Don't make an inflammatory rant over it.

5. Have fun. It's a game. It's supposed to help you relax and unwind. As soon as it stops being fun, it's time to walk away.

6. Be a team player and look out for others.

WELL SAID THERE

[heavensraven]

practically spoke what was always on the back of my mind

[kalone]

I'm honestly getting tired of hearing about people whining over nothing. I understand people need to vent, but there are appropriate times and places for that. The community is one reason why I'm thinking of quitting. I'm tired of having to bite my tongue just because someone else can't hold theirs. Honestly, there have been a few things people have said that flat p!ssed me off. It's actually getting harder and harder for me to find a reason to log on lately.

What I'd like to say in a nutshell:

1. Grow up. The world is an imperfect place. Learn some tolerance and get over stuff instead of crying about it in a melodramatic public display.

2. Don't always assume the worst about people. Tone is difficult to read in text based communication, and what you assume was rude, may not have been intended as such.

3. Think before you speak. Would the person you are addressing appreciate the comment?

4. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. If someone gets under your skin or you are just having an off day, that's not something the rest of the world needs to know about. If you need to talk to someone about it, PM a friend. Don't make an inflammatory rant over it.

5. Have fun. It's a game. It's supposed to help you relax and unwind. As soon as it stops being fun, it's time to walk away.

6. Be a team player and look out for others.

I'm in love.

[Miazma]

And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

As an Aussie I find that comments I make are easily misinterpreted by people from other countries. We Aussie's, like other countries have our own definition of a lot of words. What to me is a funny comment can be offensive to another. Usually I ask people who I befriend to ask me if I say something that to them seems offensive so that I can explain.

But how, when I am speaking in normal chat do I know the comment I make will be offensive to someone?

[kalone]

And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

As an Aussie I find that comments I make are easily misinterpreted by people from other countries. We Aussie's, like other countries have our own definition of a lot of words. What to me is a funny comment can be offensive to another. Usually I ask people who I befriend to ask me if I say something that to them seems offensive so that I can explain.

But how, when I am speaking in normal chat do I know the comment I make will be offensive to someone?

It's just because Aussies have a different taste in humour than the rest of the world. The best thing an Aussie does better than any other country in the world, is the ability to laugh at themselves.

We rock.

[Miazma]

LMAO Kalone you are so right.

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI :D

[Lythari]

Yes, the game is private. Meaning the United States or whatever government has no control over the game's governing policies. Its just like a casino. If for some bizarre reason the game chose to not let Asian players play, they are technically legally allowed to do so. That's what I meant by private. -_-

Do you think the community players report people because they are really that offended OR do you think people report because they like to see others get banned? Now you can have a little philosophy case there :cool:

edit: Of course if a person persist to cause constant disruption or spam, it may truly disrupt others' gaming experience and may call for a ban. But I sure hope the admins aren't like you, where a single case of "stfu, noob" is enough for you to drop the golden hammer.

My point is made! Have a good evening and enjoy Fiesta (as in, dont get bothered too much).

Just keep telling yourself that. The fact is, that so long as Outspark engages in interstate commerce, they are to adhere to federal commerce statutes, subject to federal restrictions, and any violations relating to their interstate commercial activity is withing federal jurisdiction and regulation. Yes, the federal government could most certainly intervene. Case and point:

On the East Coast somewhere (I think it was one of the Carolinas), there was a privately owned restaraunt that refused to serve black people. The owner claimed that it was his own establishment, and that there was nothing the government could do about it. A federal investigation and congressional hearing informed him that he was mistaken. Turns out, his establishment was fairly close to the border of that particular state. Because he was on the border, people from the neighboring state were stopping and eating there. Because people from another state were eating there, and he was not allowing black people to eat there, it was considered interfering with interstate commerce. He either had to change his attitude about who he would or would not serve, or move his business approx. five hundred miles withing state boundaries. Upon being told this, he had a sudden change in heart concerning the matter. I guess all of this took place in the mid to late 1970's.

The minute you think the Feds can't touch you is the minute they swat you on the nose with a newspaper. Now, if every last bit of money Outspark makes off of Fiesta comes from withing their state boundary, then they are not subject to these statutes. However, I would be very surprised if that were the case.

What you are probably thinking of are Native American casinos on the reservations. Well, the Reservations are not part of the US, hence not subject to our interstate commerce laws.

[Celtic_Princess]

Certain terms are indeed different between cultures, and should a situation arise due to it, simply explain that it means something else where you are from.

When I wrote this thread I didn't intend it to be a 'whining' or a 'venting' thread. In fact I honestly didn't expect it to get this many hits. My purpose in my original post was simply to say that the community, while overall is still a great community, still has several people that bring it down. And my intention with the thread was simply to say that to remain as such an amazing community we need to recognize a few simple common courtesies to each other.

Personally I do not take offense easily, I grew up in a household where things are pretty laid back. But I do have a few bad experiences in my past that could be touched on inadvertently in game by someone unawares of my background. My point is that without knowing the people you are talking to, you don't know if what you are saying is offensive to them or not. You could mean something as a joke, or say something out of anger that you don't even think twice about...but could offend the recipient enough for them to report you. Its a shame to see a lot of high level players who have worked so hard get banned because of a silly comment that was probably said out of anger, and that they probably didn't mean. Its easily avoided if you ask me.

Thats all I was trying to say.

[kalone]

Then I envy you princess.

Having a good childhood etc. but when you're down. Just think. How many others, have it worse than you do right now? Poverty, death, war. People live in those situations in every day life.

And you're here, on a game, getting angry. Now it sounds like I'm making fun, but I'm not. Sometimes you gotta step back, look at the bigger picture.

[Lythari]

Then I envy you princess.

Having a good childhood etc. but when you're down. Just think. How many others, have it worse than you do right now? Poverty, death, war. People live in those situations in every day life.

And you're here, on a game, getting angry. Now it sounds like I'm making fun, but I'm not. Sometimes you gotta step back, look at the bigger picture.

Well said. I salute you, Kalone. And it is that thought I have in mind when I tell people to stop whining. There are far worse things in the world than whatever happened to you (the proverbial 'you', not you personally)in a game. that's why I say that some things aren't worth dwelling on. Some things just aren't significant enough to merit such reaction that they get.

Sorry if this is confusing. My sleep meds are starting to kick in and I really don't know if what I wrote was what I was thinking. I'll review it first chance...

[kalone]

I love this girl.

So we all in unity here? Lets have a big happy super mega family hug!
http://www.dvdverdict.com/images/reviewpics/raymond802.jpg

[Miazma]

Its a shame to see a lot of high level players who have worked so hard get banned because of a silly comment that was probably said out of anger, and that they probably didn't mean.

When the game gets to that point for me I will simply stop playing it, NO MATTER how much I love it. Speaking in ALL/GENERAL chat has certainly taken a downhill slide on Fiesta of late. People openly using the *F* word etc etc etc.

I have played online games for over 8 years now and I am fully aware that I am dealing with people of all ages, cultures and religions. However the beauty of the game world is we are all created equal, we all start at lvl 1, what we do from there is our own choice. It isnt until people bring their pride and prejudices into the gameplay that problems arise.

I say simply LIVE AND LET LIVE. So it pees you off, YOU have the power, instead of losing your temper over it, log off and go visit the real world and smell the flowers. :D

[Lythari]

I love this girl.

So we all in unity here? Lets have a big happy super mega family hug!
http://www.dvdverdict.com/images/reviewpics/raymond802.jpg

Ugh...stop messing with my Zolpidem induced euphoria... @.@

your confusimg me with the picture

[kalone]

Dear, dear me. Ohhh poor girl. So... innocent, like the world never touched her.

You see, dear Miazma, you have realized that you are dealing with all people of all ages, cultures and religion in the game. However you then say to visit, what we call, "the real world" and smell the flowers if this game is too much.

I ask you Miazma, is the real world evergreen?


I love you Lythari.

[Gravvi]

LOL Lythari and Kalone get a room :). Now lythari i have pretty much read everything you have ever posted. Even in the archer section. You seem like you have been around wise Monks for 30 years or your a hippy who doesn't let anything get you down :). Either way i wish i could think in that mentality. But yes i think of things that are much worse than me when playing this game. There are some topics (Non game related) tho that push my I WANNA PUNCH U IN THE FACE button. And lately that topic has been brought up many times.

I am on a temp leave from fiesta because i found out half the depression and drama caused is caused by the trolls.

On my break from fiesta i went ot my friends who was out of state. I realized how happy i was. But when i got home and got back on fiesta and checked the forums. That button was pushed 2 times. 2 threads about that topic. And then i started another MMO. I noticed how the fiesta economy has become compared to the MMO i played. I noticed that there are more people in fiesta trying to cause problems now in the newer generation than in the old generation.

THe old generation problems weren't harassing IRL problems. It was usually MY guild is better type things and they would war. Now its people harassing you, training, KS'ing, hacking, and scamming.

Its late and my post probably makes no sense. It did when i started it anyway.

[Miazma]

Dear, dear me. Ohhh poor girl. So... innocent, like the world never touched her.

You see, dear Miazma, you have realized that you are dealing with all people of all ages, cultures and religion in the game. However you then say to visit, what we call, "the real world" and smell the flowers if this game is too much.

I ask you Miazma, is the real world evergreen?


I love you Lythari.

ermmm you obviously dont live in TROPICAL QUEENSLAND the world is very very green here :D And *Innocent and untouched by the world* is far from the truth. But I choose to have that outlook ingame because it is after all a game, and somehow I have always thought games were supposed to be fun.

The comment *smell the flowers* is a well known saying for *take time out from what is upsetting you* and not meant in the literal sense. I know whenever my world gets turned upside down a 1v1 chat with my Mum soon puts it back in perspective :P

[kalone]

The comment *smell the flowers* is a well known saying for *take time out from what is upsetting you* and not meant in the literal sense. I know whenever my world gets turned upside down a 1v1 chat with my Mum soon puts it back in perspective :P

There is such a thing as a poisonous flower.

[KateeHellen]

Alright... even this thread have again slip to off topic things.
Sheesh... can we have AT LEAST one thread about in game problems without someone who <intentionally or not> derail him?
I known that so far couple posts here can be interpreted as ironical and funny however this my slip very quick in way that this thread will take place amongs another closed threads because people cannot hold thier emotions at check...
Call me paranoid but i saw already in off threads witch have been closed because of innocent "argument exchange" between posters turn in flame war.
So please let us back to topic or maybe thread opener should ask CLs to close him already before sytuation get out of controll...

[darjpen10]

Reported...jerk.

On topic though you have alot of good points hun, youve deffenitly changed the way Ive thought of things after I read it. ^^

Reported O_o? READ THE THREAD It says just bring it to pm, not let the whole community know XD

[darjpen10]

And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

As an Aussie I find that comments I make are easily misinterpreted by people from other countries. We Aussie's, like other countries have our own definition of a lot of words. What to me is a funny comment can be offensive to another. Usually I ask people who I befriend to ask me if I say something that to them seems offensive so that I can explain.

But how, when I am speaking in normal chat do I know the comment I make will be offensive to someone?

me a aussie too >:D

[KateeHellen]

Reported O_o? READ THE THREAD It says just bring it to pm, not let the whole community know XD

Whit all due respect officer:).
His post have two parts.
1 part consist a guy who at the beginning spamm posts whit only two words noob and stufu<assuming that we interpreted those words as ironic, by the way later on he post accually couple things(about private play in Fiesta)>.
And second part was directed at posts of Princess :)

[kalone]

Alright... even this thread have again slip to off topic things.
Sheesh... can we have AT LEAST one thread about in game problems without someone who <intentionally or not> derail him?
I known that so far couple posts here can be interpreted as ironical and funny however this my slip very quick in way that this thread will take place amongs another closed threads because people cannot hold thier emotions at check...
Call me paranoid but i saw already in off threads witch have been closed because of innocent "argument exchange" between posters turn in flame war.
So please let us back to topic or maybe thread opener should ask CLs to close him already before sytuation get out of controll...

You are paranoid.

There are sub topics to a thread. We are merely discussing the sub topics.

I feel as if this forum is turning into some sort of dictating world. Some things are acceptable, as long as it is accepted, then let it be.

[KateeHellen]

You are paranoid.

There are sub topics to a thread. We are merely discussing the sub topics.

I feel as if this forum is turning into some sort of dictating world. Some things are acceptable, as long as it is accepted, then let it be.

Huh... Dictating world?:confused:
Belive me or not but since when desire to have free from foul language enviroment is called a dictature?
I grow up in times when people who use such kind of language were usually affiliated whit closed subcultures, now this language have become something what is mostly acceptable by todays young generation and people who try fight whit that type of behavior have been treated as let say unnormal... <i was called once crazy because i made comment over speech one of students at univ who use very harsh language.>
And about sub topic issue.
Do not get me wrong but can you give me explanation why put sub topic issues to thread created by other person?
You want to discus something then start your own thread and not derail someone others work, because it is common tendency that once putted sub topic usually tend to dominate entire thread making people forget what was main topic and in effect lead to closing entire thread for off topic<in best case scenario> or turning in to flame war of personal attacks<in worst case scenario>.

[michelangelo.]

Remember - the GMs don't ban people who get reported straight away. They get warnings or a little bit of jail time.
The original poster isn't asking for people to get banned because they're not nice - which is what some of you are assuming.

In all due respect, I see where you are ALL comming from. We all wanna see a bit more common courtesy from players, but there is not alot we can do about it short of phoning thier parents. But we can still try to do something about it, which Matts_Girl is attempting to do - by making the issue know. And because of that, I salute you.

[Miazma]

ummm Katee I am going to assume that your rant is about Kalone and myself. Both Kalone and I are Aussies and we each understand and respect that the other is joking. Both Kalone and myself have taken the time to post positive comments on this thread and the sub topic is part of the original thread.

If people trying to bring some humour into a thread offends you I am indeed sorry. I also think it is time some people on this forum took an attitude check. We have CL's who monitor the forum and they do an awesome job. I am sure if, and when, they decide they need help to do their job they will employ people to do it. For now I think THE UNEMPLOYED FORUM POLICE need to realise this is a place for us all to come together. Fastest way to drive people away is for other people to continually pick at every post that is made :D

[kalone]

ummm Katee I am going to assume that your rant is about Kalone and myself. Both Kalone and I are Aussies and we each understand and respect that the other is joking. Both Kalone and myself have taken the time to post positive comments on this thread and the sub topic is part of the original thread.

If people trying to bring some humour into a thread offends you I am indeed sorry. I also think it is time some people on this forum took an attitude check. We have CL's who monitor the forum and they do an awesome job. I am sure if, and when, they decide they need help to do their job they will employ people to do it. For now I think THE UNEMPLOYED FORUM POLICE need to realise this is a place for us all to come together. Fastest way to drive people away is for other people to continually pick at every post that is made :D

I was just about to reply, but now I need not. As we are both Aussies, we think alike.

[yourmojo]

I will admit that the game is certainly changing compared to when I first joined. I will also admit that some people are extremely rude needlessly. There's scamming, gossip, flames, lowblows, cussing...etc. But...what can we do about it? I think we are fighting the wrong fight here. The internet has always been about "free speech" and "anonymity". You can effectively have your rights broken and smashed and not be able to do a thing about it. If someone starts making racists comments in real life, what happens to them? If they do it on the internet, all they get is a ban, a slap on the wrist.

Until that is addressed I don't think we can really do anything about rude or inflammatory people.

[KateeHellen]

ummm Katee I am going to assume that your rant is about Kalone and myself. Both Kalone and I are Aussies and we each understand and respect that the other is joking. Both Kalone and myself have taken the time to post positive comments on this thread and the sub topic is part of the original thread.

If people trying to bring some humour into a thread offends you I am indeed sorry. I also think it is time some people on this forum took an attitude check. We have CL's who monitor the forum and they do an awesome job. I am sure if, and when, they decide they need help to do their job they will employ people to do it. For now I think THE UNEMPLOYED FORUM POLICE need to realise this is a place for us all to come together. Fastest way to drive people away is for other people to continually pick at every post that is made :D

Do not get me wrong but what i posted was only word of cautious based over past events at other threads.
Beside what you may understand as a joke someone other will interpreted as something completly different because we see only typed words.
One more thing... i am not quite sure if as you call "bring some humor" to someone's thread where topic is related to sometimes serious case for many people is necessary because like i say early, soon or later any sort of sub topic tend to dominate main topic.
And no this not offend me but from my point of view trying to change subject of thread created by other person by implement any sort of sub topic is a little disrespectfull.
I never try to play role of unhired CL but just post what i think is correct from my own point of view but if you disagree then fine because we are entilted to have our own point of view...

[Celtic_Princess]

Honestly I do see some of the humor in Kalone and Maizma's posts, and I thank them for taking the time to post on the original topic as well. Theres also some very good points, if someone's bothering you its easier just to log off and do something else...advice I took last night although the log off was more my computers choice than mine (EVIL DC's)

I do not intend to have this thread closed, and I encourage people that disagree with me to post, you cannot argue a point effectively if you can't see both sides. All I think I was hoping for with the OP was for a newer generation of incoming players to realize that we are a good community, and that a little decency and common sense in manners and language would keep it that way.

[KateeHellen]

Alright... for the sake of this thread <and to not provoked anymore our younglings ;)> i decide to step back from posting here because i known now that my view of the world is incompatible whit many people here and just switch to "wait and see" attitude :)
I hope that at least this particular thread wont end like many others and that is what i wish you all :).

[kalone]

Katee, you are wayyyy too cautious and wayyyy too... mother...-ry.

[Celtic_Princess]

how in the world have you reached 3000 posts kalone? O.O

I'm on all the time at work *yeah yeah I know, bad me* and I'm not even at 1k yet!

[kalone]

how in the world have you reached 3000 posts kalone? O.O

I'm on all the time at work *yeah yeah I know, bad me* and I'm not even at 1k yet!

It's a secret, but I'll tell you.

It's called the "compliment spam".

Because, on these forums, they don't allow or condone bad, foul language and repetitive unnecessary posts. Which is called "spam".

I've turned this idea around and revolutionised the way I spam. I spam in a helpful, humorous and helpful way. Thus, without getting myself banned, allowing myself to spam at rampaging speeds.

[shawhty]

I am not tired of hearing it! I try(I know it's not my business) to remind people they are acting silly in shout. Not meaning any disrespect it's just people are rolling their eyes at them thinking less of them. I say if all the bad kinda people want to raise their voice! We should do the same! Help out your fellow community and try to refrain from ever calling someone a noob! I guess I have a large enough vocabulary that most people don't even try to mess with me. But I AM NOOB I know it, and I appreciate you guys not rubbing in my face. I appreciate all the help you've given. Fiesta is becoming very popular which means there are going to be more "bad apples" but that just gives us an opportunity to let our brightest light shine through.

Ways to help:
Help someone that has just been disrepected by a "bad apple" see what their question was or what they are having problems with
Don't become the problem(this means try not to ever:S ) become a fantastic solution.
If we start arguing with them then we just make the community look bad. You're right just ignore them!
And as for the forum, just try to get help from someone else if you need it:D and someone was mean:D I've wrote in the completely different area than I was suppose to. I quickly figured out where to go and quit writing on that thread completely.
Read the rules of this website in general. Someone didn't take time out of their life making them for nothing.
BE HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love you guys! vms
QUOTE"And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another."
You've got that one Princess . . . I am over emotional, and like I said, I am so glad people haven't been mean to me

oh, here is my only incident. My second day here I was showing my boyfriend the clothes and the weapons and stuff and some girl had asked me for some herb or wood or something. i didn't see her I was so involved in hanging out with my boy, and then she called me a dumasp . . . I was like OH DEAR where did that come from. Evidently she wasn't having a very good day and she logged off soon afterwards.
LET IT SLIDE OFF THAT SHOULDER. Like I said, I try to give everyone the benifit of the doubt and tell myself, hey they are having bad day. It's ok, they didn't mean it


I hope this helps sorry I talk wayyy to much:D

[shawhty]

Short of the Privacy act of 1974 that governs the disclosure of personal information collected through this website it is not private. Outspark is a business and it provides a service, Outspark and its users must still answer to governing law. Which is why certain rules are set forth in the Terms of Service.
Furthermore, any sumission to the Outspark site becomes property of Outspark for them to use at their discretion.

that was just too . . . can i say this . . . sexy

[shawhty]

[QUOTE=Celtic_Princess;926903]All I think I was hoping for with the OP was for a newer generation of incoming players to realize that we are a good community...QUOTE]

I figured it out very easily and I am trying my effin hardest to make sure all other newcomers feel the same>< I am constantly in Roumen taking time out for anyone that's like "Wat's a buff" or how do I make *x production material outcome* I have given out at least 50s to new people, I do random newb item drops for bowman and I have even dropped the 10 swords for the +3 enhancement title for 10 weapons
I want them to know there are helping hands:D and with that said, this is my last post because I am returning to Fiesta for moment or more:D

[Madcharo]

I whole-heartedly agree with this thread. When I started playing, back in late October, I never heard any rude or dissrespectfull remarks from anyone. It's only as of late that I've been noticing, as the community grows, there's a higher percentage of it that's made up of generally rude people. They may not be like that in real life but when some people get online, they tend to act like a completely different person.

While a large portion of the community is still maintain a polite image, there is a growing population of people who think that they know exactly what they're doing and if you even look at them funny will snap at you. >.>;

[heavensraven]

this thread is just dumb, not the first time someone posted shyt like this, and it doesnt change nothing, but make people leave the game.

[Celtic_Princess]

this thread is just dumb, not the first time someone posted shyt like this, and it doesnt change nothing, but make people leave the game.

If you don't like the thread, and you don't like the topic....why are you here? Constructive criticism is appreciated....but comment like that is just rude. And that is why people leave the game. It doesn't change anything because players like you disregard it as s*** and ignore it.
Basic human psychology states that we are the product of our environments. This forum, and this game is considered an environment and as such the actions performed by players in the game have an influence over ones mindset. Especially a young, impressionable mind. Acknowledging that it doesn't have the biggest influence..parents, family and friends are up there as well, this place still factors into it. And just because you don't view it as offensive to talk like you are..namely the cussing, doesn't mean others with different backgrounds won't.
And if what this thread states and what this thread stands for doesn't matter to anyone...it would be dead by now. Its not.

And for the record, the correct wording would be 'it doesn't change anything'.

[KateeHellen]

Katee, you are wayyyy too cautious and wayyyy too... mother...-ry.

Well... :D time of rebellion i have long behind me, beside i say everything what i can say about this topic at this moment.
And about second part... wish that could be true:(.
Anyway i will keep my eyes on this thread :D

[Sheya89]

Well being someone who been around for quite some time myself I can say that it defientyl has gotten different. Back in the beginning everyone seemed to be friends, they wanted to get to know each other...But nowadays I rarely see that.

I mean Im not exactly the most talkative person myself. But when someone comes up to me and starts trash talking me about me being a guy playing a girl, my build sucks for pvp, Or why Im in pvp all day killing people it gets annoying fast cause its not just one person. And yes I do tend to argue back...which Im working on stopping.

Most of my friends that I had back in the beginning has gone up and left so I have really hard time getting to know the newer generation cause, And yes Im being stereotypical and I know everyone in the new generation is not like this, plain rude or lazy.

Yeah I try to help when I can but dam Im broke myself I currently have 200c on me I cant even restone....and when a lower level comes up to me and says "Can I have some money?" And I tell them I have none and I get a reply like, "You ******* high level *******" (Not sure if those are censored or not for real but I censored them myself anyways).

My point is yeah the community hasnt gotten bad. But it is somewhat are fault to cause we aren't helping it move along. Yes in some issues we stand together like the content in game everyone wants that and fights for it but when it comes to stuff like this people just sit around and say "It's too big of an issue Im not even gonna bother." Your just letting the offenders win by not doing anything.

If ya want this to stop the community has to work together to make it stop...

[Celtic_Princess]

SHEEEEYYYYAAAA!!!!! <3 *huggles*

I ish still around...despite my computers attempts to thwart me reaching 70 XD

[Sheya89]

Lol wish ya the best in that ^^. *hits your comp with problem solver* It help?

[heavensraven]

If you don't like the thread, and you don't like the topic....why are you here? Constructive criticism is appreciated....but comment like that is just rude. And that is why people leave the game. It doesn't change anything because players like you disregard it as s*** and ignore it.
Basic human psychology states that we are the product of our environments. This forum, and this game is considered an environment and as such the actions performed by players in the game have an influence over ones mindset. Especially a young, impressionable mind. Acknowledging that it doesn't have the biggest influence..parents, family and friends are up there as well, this place still factors into it. And just because you don't view it as offensive to talk like you are..namely the cussing, doesn't mean others with different backgrounds won't.
And if what this thread states and what this thread stands for doesn't matter to anyone...it would be dead by now. Its not.

And for the record, the correct wording would be 'it doesn't change anything'.

ROFL...I dont need anyone explaining Psychology to me thanks. LOL for gods sake it justs an online game, not a fricking speech and debate class lol.....People leave this game because they realize the community aint all that no more. Simple as that. No need to explain yourself so throughly, I already understand where you stand at your point.

[Celtic_Princess]

Lol wish ya the best in that ^^. *hits your comp with problem solver* It help?

I can't tell...I'm on my work computer at the moment ^^

ROFL...I dont need anyone explaining Psychology to me thanks. LOL for gods sake it justs an online game, not a fricking speech and debate class lol.....People leave this game because they realize the community aint all that no more. Simple as that. No need to explain yourself so throughly, I already understand where you stand at your point.

If people are leaving this game because the community is going downhill why shouldn't someone try and make a stand against it? Ignoring a problem never actually solved it.
And while no this is not a speech and debate class the ability to speak or type intelligently and to back up an arguement with a valid point is, has, and always will be considered a more thorough and valid arguement than 'it is because i say so'.
Give me a good reason why we should encourage those who are rude and offensive with tacit approval when the people we want to keep around are leaving because of it?

[Shadowic2]

It may be an online game, but there are real people in and around the game itself.

It's not the game that is being addressed so much here, but the people who play it.

In a game such as this, the people really in a way create their own environment, instead of the game itself.

Personally I'd rather have a somewhat overall friendly environment, than a rude one.


The community is a big part of the game, even though it's not something coded in.

The game doesn't make the people, the people make the game.

[Gravvi]

I think we should form a group IG and go around and find these rude people and report them. First of all, When someone is rude to you that is a form of harassment which is against ToS. Now that would lessen some. But if it lessened some maybe the newer generation will see that its not ok to be rude in an game. I noticed that most of the immature rudeness In game are from the little kids. Something else that people don't understand is that you can technically be arrested for some online conduct. People think they can get away with harassing someone on the internet.

[Celtic_Princess]

I think we should form a group IG and go around and find these rude people and report them. First of all, When someone is rude to you that is a form of harassment which is against ToS. Now that would lessen some. But if it lessened some maybe the newer generation will see that its not ok to be rude in an game. I noticed that most of the immature rudeness In game are from the little kids. Something else that people don't understand is that you can technically be arrested for some online conduct. People think they can get away with harassing someone on the internet.

dangit gravvi when did you cap?!?! *sigh* seriously I leave for two weeks and its like everones either close to capping or capped >.<

[Lythari]

LOL Lythari and Kalone get a room :). Now lythari i have pretty much read everything you have ever posted. Even in the archer section. You seem like you have been around wise Monks for 30 years or your a hippy who doesn't let anything get you down :). Either way i wish i could think in that mentality. But yes i think of things that are much worse than me when playing this game. There are some topics (Non game related) tho that push my I WANNA PUNCH U IN THE FACE button. And lately that topic has been brought up many times.

I am on a temp leave from fiesta because i found out half the depression and drama caused is caused by the trolls.

On my break from fiesta i went ot my friends who was out of state. I realized how happy i was. But when i got home and got back on fiesta and checked the forums. That button was pushed 2 times. 2 threads about that topic. And then i started another MMO. I noticed how the fiesta economy has become compared to the MMO i played. I noticed that there are more people in fiesta trying to cause problems now in the newer generation than in the old generation.

THe old generation problems weren't harassing IRL problems. It was usually MY guild is better type things and they would war. Now its people harassing you, training, KS'ing, hacking, and scamming.

Its late and my post probably makes no sense. It did when i started it anyway.

I have a 12x12 cell, thank you.

I'm neither a hippie or a monk. I get hurt, angry, frustrated, and depressed like all of you: and there have been many instances here on these forums where I was either frustrated, depressed, or just plain insulted and offended by what others say. However, I have never openly vocalized it (not to my knowledge, anyway). Why? Because I do not believe an open discussion is the appropriate or mature way to handle it. If something is said that upsets you, that is between you and the person who said it, not between you and the whole world. Airing this dirty laundry is making public issue out of a personal conflict. It's none of the world's business whether you found something offensive. It's between you and the person who said/did it.

make no mistake: I'm half Irish. I definitely have a temper. However, I've learned to control it without it controlling me. I also find alternate ways of venting that do not hurt or insult others. If you get mad, go for a jog. Go to the gym and take it out on some weights. Go to a martial arts class and take it out on a punching bag/kick bag (like I do). Release your frustration in a way that does not harm, insult, offend, or adversely affect others. Physical (nonviolent) activity is the best way to vent. Far better than coming on here, saying all manner of unflattering things, then acting like it was all a misunderstanding when people challenge your statements.

[Celtic_Princess]

Actually...this thread was not started from a personal conflict.

I get where you're coming from, but I was raised a little differently. I was taught that when there was a communal problem, the wise decision is to make the situation known and see what can be done about it. I'm not targeting one specific person in here...I could...but I choose not to, because as you said that is between me and that person.
My point was that the community as a whole seems to have become a little ruder with one another than they used to be. Maybe some don't view this as a problem, or they view it as normal. But I think that it is...and so I chose to say something about it.

[Gravvi]

dangit gravvi when did you cap?!?! *sigh* seriously I leave for two weeks and its like everones either close to capping or capped >.<

Lol i capped last month...


@lythari Now i am half irish also but i found when things really get bad i go and self-reflect.(to those who don't know its a form of meditation). Last time i went to go do something physically nonviolent i got yelled at by the parental unit lol.

IRL when i get really mad i just don't talk. And when i dont' talk i go to practice my parkour. Its helping me somewhat but when i get back i just feel just as angry as before. I have rage issues lol.

[Takako]

Woot go kat speak out the truth!

[kalone]

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Victor Frankl

[IcarusFlewTooHigh]

Let me begin with a quote...

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."

Now, artistic and philosophical genius Bill Watterson wasn't a forum troll, but it often seems to me his satirical take on rudeness has become gospel for the bored, adolescent teens and trolling misanthropes out there who just can't resist dragging every decent discourse down into a puddle of mud like a fat kid can't resist cake. Like a few people have said, you have a lot of players who have been playing for a long time. They're capping. They have nothing to do. So they get bored. And when the natives are restless, they go to the forums and look for a sacrifice. Guild warring is also on the rise because of this boredom. When a player can't find something to do, you have idle hands, and idle hands are the devil's playground. When everyone was leveling up together and things were new, there still existed that happy-go-lucky, Louis & Clark-esque feeling of exploring and finding something new. But now nothing is new, and the only alternative to sitting around is starting another character and doing the rinse and repeat mantra. So a lot of players are just anxious. I think that's the rudeness you're noticing.

[kalone]

So basically boredom is an excuse for everything bad that happens.

[Miazma]

My opinion is that comparing Fiesta today to the early Fiesta is a little unjust.

I am sure back in the beginning there were also players who were not, shall we say, the politest of people. The difference being that now the player base is a heck of a lot larger than it was back then and consequently we have more rude people.

Maybe we could all think of just one thing we could each do that would alleviate some of the rudeness!

Example go stand in Elderine and watch the chat, see how often a newbie member asks for help and is ignored. Then yelled at for spamming because he/she is being ignored. Now, how many of us could have replied? but were to busy or just didnt feel like it?

Cleric buffs, HUGE issue ingame. IF THE CLERIC LETS IT BE :P Sure it costs me a few pots, but they are cheap. I buff whoever asks, I also buff the people who stand quietly and say nothing because they are to timid to ask. WHY are they to timid to ask? because clerics have got so full of themselves and demand FULL sentence requests for buffing etc, so the asker never knows what reaction he will get. Think back, how many times have you wanted a buff, typed out the request sentence in full, as demanded, ONLY to have the cleric be way out of asking range by the time you send the request to chat?

A newbie member asks you for help, do you take the time to help them or do you give them instructions? Most people just give instructions, now the problem with that is the help is given with the knowledge you have of the game, the newbie is asking because they dont have the knowledge. Yes I do take the time to help when asked. Imagine the shock, just the other night I was in Roumen and I was asked *Can you help me find Bored Imps pls*. I said sure and partied the person, took them to bored imps and killed them, THEN the person notices I am lvl 79. She was amazed that I had taken the time to help her.

Begging has become a big problem in the game, newer players expecting the longer playing members to give them handouts. I never give to beggars but I do give them hints and tips on how they can make money on the game.

Maybe if we all take the time to find just one way that we can bring back some of the old caring traditions to the game we will be able to make a change.

No we will never eradicate all rudeness that would be like living in a fantasy world. But we sure can make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. :D

[Gravvi]

Well the older generation had some bad eggs but it never got as bad as today's fiesta.

[Miazma]

mmmhhh as I get older things that were a big drama a while back seem to have dimmed into the not such a big deal category. We live in the now, and unfortunately that means change, some good and some bad.

10 nasties in a group of a few thousand isnt a big deal. We wont run across them often.

100 nasties in 5 thousand we seem to fall over them often, why you ask?, simple, our world hasnt expanded to accommodate the extra users :D

[kalone]

mmmhhh as I get older things that were a big drama a while back seem to have dimmed into the not such a big deal category. We live in the now, and unfortunately that means change, some good and some bad.

10 nasties in a group of a few thousand isnt a big deal. We wont run across them often.

100 nasties in 5 thousand we seem to fall over them often, why you ask?, simple, our world hasnt expanded to accommodate the extra users :D

And also, you'll be more likely to bump into a jack @ss on the internet than real life.

[Celtic_Princess]

Like I said before I believe the anonimity of the internet leads some of these people to think that certain behaviors they would not get away with in real life are now okay because no one will actually know who they are.

Miazma, I love your ideas...and congratulations on capping :) I try and buff most of the people that ask me already...but I admit that even I tend to ignore some of the newbie questions in shout and I'll take a step to make an effort ^^

I also agree that perhaps we didn't run across these 'bad apples' as often in the older fiesta...but expanding a game to allow more players doesn't mean that the behavior should be tolerated. I've noticed that a lot of people (especially in PvP) tend to take out their anger from their day on other people...
Sure...PvP is a good place to have a good fight maybe work out some frustration but I see a lot of verbal abuse that is usually uncalled for...just because the person came in with a bad attitude.

I think with the expansion of the game it is the 'older generations' responsibility to set an example of how we expect the community to be :)

[RikoRain]

Well you seem to forget that most of those responses that argue which class is better, or server, is someone ASKING which in other peoples OPINIONS are better.

I will try to refrain from adding my own opinions on it, but you really do seem to have forgotten that.

The only point of an mmorpg isnt just to party up with people and know others. Its to do whatever you want with your own character. Customization. People love it, you know. That means if you want to create a character purely for looks, by hell, you can do it. If you want to make one super strong and a PVP one, by hell, you can do it. If you want to make one that can purely be defensive so youre amazingly good at aoe or strong attacks, by hell, YOU CAN DO IT.

Further.. I have NEVER heard someone say something like "You cannot make a DD fighter", or "You cannot make a tank cleric". I wonder which low nubby threads you read where someone has been telling others they "can or cannot" do things to character builds. I have heard people give ADVICE on what they SHOULD or SHOULDNT do on their builds. And this makes me wonder... would you rather no one give any advice at all? So that means when my friend made a fighter and put points into INT (because she literally thought it was for Intelligence, and not magical power), that I should have just shut my mouth and let her continue that? To me, thats bad friendship. And I also supposed I should have NOT told her about the 10 free stat points at lv 30? Again, doesnt seem very nice to me to do that... to not give advice on someone elses character.

You say that if we have issues with other players, to avoid them... yet.. youre making this post (Yes, not Im a bit mad). People have the RIGHT to say "noob" and "stfu". Hell, half the time I hear those words its PLAYING AROUND. Not everything is dead serious, you know. And so what if it is serious? If I am partied with a lv 70 fighter who isnt mocking, and I ask him to mock, and he says "WHAT IS MOCK?!?!"--- OF COURSE im going to call him a noob!!!!! D:< Its my right to and I think he is.

And a piece of advice, if you think its even my physical right to give advice -.-''':
The people who are "bad" as you say... chances are they DO NOT read the forums. Unless the server is down and they are rip roaring mad, they do not read the forums. So in fact... you are only ranting at the decent players in this game. :/ How nice of you.

And since you said racist.. dont think Im being a jerk. Ive been happily soloing once on my cleric, and had some other fighter come up to me, ask me for a buff, I refuse, and theyve called me a "racist **** **** ****". Add more asterisks. On and on, pop in "racist" and "noob" a few more times, and youll see the abuse I get for simply saying "No, I wont buff you, you HAVE a buff".

Lastly, its common sense to not give away personal details. I would think ESPECIALLY to people you dont know or are enemies with. Henceforth... there should be no "racist" comments, seeing as how racist comments must require somethign to do with skin color, religious beliefs, actual race, or some other REAL LIFE physical feature. (Badmouthing a class in game should not count as racism, since this is, JUST A GAME.)

--end rant--

Started out reasonable, brought in a slice of anger, but my point gets across. Its constructive criticism on the post.. not a "FLAME FLAME FLAME"

[RikoRain]

Like I said before I believe the anonimity of the internet leads some of these people to think that certain behaviors they would not get away with in real life are now okay because no one will actually know who they are.


>.> Exactly.

Hence when some hot headed youth goes BONKERS over nothing.. you should simply ignore their lack of brain power.. Like the fact that I know someone who constantly curses, insults, and taunts people in game. Since he has the money, he charms up with all sorts of extenders and such, and is basically an overall JERK.

I blocked all his characters :)
Problem. SOLVED.

[Celtic_Princess]

Well you seem to forget that most of those responses that argue which class is better, or server, is someone ASKING which in other peoples OPINIONS are better.

I will try to refrain from adding my own opinions on it, but you really do seem to have forgotten that.

The only point of an mmorpg isnt just to party up with people and know others. Its to do whatever you want with your own character. Customization. People love it, you know. That means if you want to create a character purely for looks, by hell, you can do it. If you want to make one super strong and a PVP one, by hell, you can do it. If you want to make one that can purely be defensive so youre amazingly good at aoe or strong attacks, by hell, YOU CAN DO IT.

Further.. I have NEVER heard someone say something like "You cannot make a DD fighter", or "You cannot make a tank cleric". I wonder which low nubby threads you read where someone has been telling others they "can or cannot" do things to character builds. I have heard people give ADVICE on what they SHOULD or SHOULDNT do on their builds. And this makes me wonder... would you rather no one give any advice at all? So that means when my friend made a fighter and put points into INT (because she literally thought it was for Intelligence, and not magical power), that I should have just shut my mouth and let her continue that? To me, thats bad friendship. And I also supposed I should have NOT told her about the 10 free stat points at lv 30? Again, doesnt seem very nice to me to do that... to not give advice on someone elses character.

You say that if we have issues with other players, to avoid them... yet.. youre making this post (Yes, not Im a bit mad). People have the RIGHT to say "noob" and "stfu". Hell, half the time I hear those words its PLAYING AROUND. Not everything is dead serious, you know. And so what if it is serious? If I am partied with a lv 70 fighter who isnt mocking, and I ask him to mock, and he says "WHAT IS MOCK?!?!"--- OF COURSE im going to call him a noob!!!!! D:< Its my right to and I think he is.

And a piece of advice, if you think its even my physical right to give advice -.-''':
The people who are "bad" as you say... chances are they DO NOT read the forums. Unless the server is down and they are rip roaring mad, they do not read the forums. So in fact... you are only ranting at the decent players in this game. :/ How nice of you.

And since you said racist.. dont think Im being a jerk. Ive been happily soloing once on my cleric, and had some other fighter come up to me, ask me for a buff, I refuse, and theyve called me a "racist **** **** ****". Add more asterisks. On and on, pop in "racist" and "noob" a few more times, and youll see the abuse I get for simply saying "No, I wont buff you, you HAVE a buff".

Lastly, its common sense to not give away personal details. I would think ESPECIALLY to people you dont know or are enemies with. Henceforth... there should be no "racist" comments, seeing as how racist comments must require somethign to do with skin color, religious beliefs, actual race, or some other REAL LIFE physical feature. (Badmouthing a class in game should not count as racism, since this is, JUST A GAME.)

--end rant--

Started out reasonable, brought in a slice of anger, but my point gets across. Its constructive criticism on the post.. not a "FLAME FLAME FLAME"

My intention was not to say do not give advice. When I say no one should be telling you what you can and cannot do with your character it is to say for example the excessive threads on why clerics CAN'T tank where several posts say that if a cleric chooses to do anything but sit back and heal they are bad clerics. If you don't believe me I'd be more than happy to quote said threads.

As for racism, no we are not supposed to release personal details. But how many guilds have you seen that advertise a certain culture or heritage. That alone gives someone a little bit of information to pick on. I don't think you're a jerk for saying it...I've been badmouthed for not giving a buff before too. My point with this thread is that THAT behavior is rude and uncalled for and making Fiesta a little less fun the more I hear it. I've also heard noob used in play..it was an example..but its not always used that way.

And since you choose to bring sarcasm into this with your comment of 'if you even think its my physical right to give advice' please note that i've also many times on this thread (if you bothered to read them all) stated that I welcome other opinions, and that I'll try to understand where they are coming from. Personally I think you missed my point. I think you took all of my examples as literal and that people are inherently bad in my opinion. Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that compared to what the community was like when I started and what it is like now...things are different. And not all of the changes are for the better.

I also know that whoever reads this made a choice in doing so. And whether they be one of the 'bad' players or whether they be a 'good' player or even completely indifferent I hope they took something away from it. I hope they took some of what I said into consideration and whether they choose to act on it or not is their choice.

[Serric]

About racism in the game…

There are only two races: Elven and Human. Three if you want to classify the Dark Elf as a separate race. There are no Mexicans, Americans, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, etc., there are only Elves and Humans. The player is insubstantial. The user doesn’t exist. The character is all there is.

Regardless of which language someone speaks in the game people need to remember the above and act maturely. If they don’t, and they get caught, they get banned. OutSpark has shown a zero tolerance to racism in the game and I don’t expect that to lighten up any time soon.

Now, about the rudeness of others. Consider these forums. Sure, there are the occasional outbursts and tantrums, arguments and shout fests but to be perfectly honest, that is to be expected between siblings.

Yup – that’s what I said: siblings. We are a family here. All of us are brothers and sisters, cousins, nephews, nieces and aunts. Any one of you can clearly see we are a patchwork of a family but a family none the less, and as we know, family gets on our nerves sometimes!

We work things out, usually, and when we can’t we have other siblings which try to keep the peace. Sometimes someone needs to go ion a corner but that usually happens only when someone’s being an especially bratty kid. :p

Do we have any Hawaiians here? Would anyone like to explain the concept of family that keeps the islands in harmony for the most part? Everyone there is “Cuz!”

“What’s up, cuz?”

“Mahalo, cousin”

Why should it be any different here? Now, we do have some extended family in the game that doesn’t visit the forums nearly as much as they should. I’d love to find a way to correct that issue but am not sure how to approach it, really. We can’t force them to come here (even though they would be all the better for it)

What I am getting at is we all need to learn to get along with one another better, to appreciate the difference between us that make us whole. After all, we were all attracted to these games so no one can say we don’t have anything in common. Yes, it’s frustrating when some people are rude and whatnot but I think if more of us approached the situation of dealing with an unruly little brother or sister things will eventually start to change game-wide.

Of course, maybe this is just a pipedream. Who knows? All I do know is we can’t force others to change. We must lead the way and set an example – give them something to aspire to in order to change themselves.

[Celtic_Princess]

I think thats incredibly well stated Serric, and thanks for keeping an eye on things here. I hope it is not a pipedream, I like the idea of what you've presented and I think that if more people took the time to set an example it could easily be accomplished.

My original post, and several that have been dispersed throughout this thread have had a trace of my temper in it. I have an incredibly short temper :p ...so even I have things to work on. I'm not trying to present myself as a perfect example.


On a side note: My sister left stitches in me when we 'argued'...I'm starting to think we weren't normal o.o

[Lythari]

As much as I hate being the voice of cold hard logic here...

Racism is inevitable. It is ingrained in human nature. Even if 'everybody does their part', it will not go away. The best we can hope for is a better regulation of it. However, racial tension is embedded in all cultures of the world. Nothing anyone, nor any amount of people, can be done to change or eliminate that outside of a regime enforcing 'anti racism' laws by lethal force. Of the two, I feel that is a far worse situation.

The best solution is for people to come to terms with it. Deal with it in such a manner that resolves the issue to your satisfaction, but does not inflame the situation nor involve unnecessary parties. Handle the situation as has been previously explained and move on with life. However, I can't help but feel that getting offended by something 'racially suggestive' is more a conscious choice than reflexive. This goes back to what I have said about people not understanding the meaning of some words. There are many 'harmless' phrases used today that are actually racial slurs, but no one seems to care...

[Celtic_Princess]

..or maybe they don't know. I know a few racial slurs that my ex used to use but frankly when it comes to slang i'm pretty much an idiot.

And you're always the voice of logic ^^ Neither here nor there but always a realist :)

[KiSsGod]

In every community there will be "bad apples" and we just need to expect that. I learned the best way to stop a person from insulting you or just being pain rude is to ignore/block them. When you open your mouth it always seems to make things worse and thats what that person[s] wants. Its better to just be nice to everyone even if they incredibly rude to you at times. If you say rude things back, it makes you just as bad as the person who started it. My advice is just be kind/friendly to everyone. Maybe then people will change and follow your example xD.

[Gravvi]

About racism in the game…

There are only two races: Elven and Human. Three if you want to classify the Dark Elf as a separate race. There are no Mexicans, Americans, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, etc., there are only Elves and Humans. The player is insubstantial. The user doesn’t exist. The character is all there is.

Regardless of which language someone speaks in the game people need to remember the above and act maturely. If they don’t, and they get caught, they get banned. OutSpark has shown a zero tolerance to racism in the game and I don’t expect that to lighten up any time soon.



Ok about this part. Where You speak about the language someone speaks. This is why I don't like this game. You say they have to watch what they say in all languages. Well since we have to use English on the forums so GM's and CL's can monitor the actions. How can you report someone who offends you in a different language if the GM's and CL's can't understand it? I sent a PM to fiesta_help concerning this issue and its been a while and no response. So Serric please help me figure this out. Its not stated its a rule to speak english IG but it is a rule for the forums. This confuses me.

And well said about elves and humans thats all that should be known. No race should be brought in. We are all white humans or white elves. (until we can change skin tones with CS :)

[Serric]

As much as I hate being the voice of cold hard logic here...


I would like to argue this, but I can’t. You are correct in your assessment. However, you also give a glimpse at the one and only hope we have of overcoming this issue.

“Racism is a conscious choice” – this is a profound statement, indeed.

Have you ever watched small children play? They are not governed by the color of someone’s skin or their religion or even physical handicaps for the most part. All they want to do is play. Who cares if they aren’t the same as us – they have the ball so let’s play!! An ancient philosopher once said that children, in all their innocence, are smarter at that young age than any adult. It would take us years, if not a lifetime to unlearn the lessons of hate we picked up along the way.

Can we unlearn the bad lessons we’ve picked up? When presented with a situation requiring a choice, can we be sagacious enough to make the right choice?

Racism is an interesting thing, really. Believe it or not, there was a time for it. Of course, it wasn’t called racism back then, but look back tens of thousands of years ago. We enlightened primates clung tightly to our clans, our families. We protected our home and loved ones with everything we had – because our survival depended on it. When an outside clan threatened that safety, we reacted with hostility. We recognized outsiders and didn’t trust them. From survival, an inalienable human right, was born the most alienating and inhumane social disease known today as racism.

I don’t mean to pontificate on this issue and think we have strayed from the original topic some but so I will leave you with this final thought:

If racism and hatred are conscious decisions then so are their antitheses, unity and love. Life is nothing but a series of choices, one after another. You will not always make the right choice, but can you make amends for the poor choices?

It all starts with one person.

You.

Ok about this part. Where You speak about the language someone speaks. This is why I don't like this game. You say they have to watch what they say in all languages. Well since we have to use English on the forums so GM's and CL's can monitor the actions. How can you report someone who offends you in a different language if the GM's and CL's can't understand it? I sent a PM to fiesta_help concerning this issue and its been a while and no response. So Serric please help me figure this out. Its not stated its a rule to speak english IG but it is a rule for the forums. This confuses me.

And well said about elves and humans thats all that should be known. No race should be brought in. We are all white humans or white elves. (until we can change skin tones with CS :)

If you have a screenshot of someone talking in a non English language which can clearly be translated then I would encourage you to report it.

Insults are one thing. TOS violations are another. English or non, there is a line in regards to acceptable behavior. Cross it and there may be reprecussions.

I hope that helps.

[Gravvi]

it somewhat helps me :). But ummm who is suppose to translate it? i don't advise Free translators. I tried to use on for my homework and i got an F on that homework cuz it didn't translate correctly T_T.

*Edit*
I think the economy would get better if the report button got fixed. Or if we block a spammer its reported. If he gets blocked by x amount of people it jails him permanetly.

Umm i had many suggestions. I sent them to the GM's but no response.

[Serric]

The GMs are working on a lot of those, actually. I think one of the things I mentioned in person was the in-game report function. The problem is a small staff and somewhat big updates...

Granted, I would never use a free translator for homework but they do teh trick usually. However, KiSsGod has a point: no one can insult you. You can be insulted by what someone says, but no one can make you feel inferior without your concent.

If you can, just ignore them. If you feel they are saying something worth moderation, however, grab a screenie and report them.

[Gravvi]

*edited* i am going to whispers to prevent taking this thread off topic :)

[Serric]

The in-game censor is still running on OnSon's platform. Being the game was predominately in Korean/Japanese I think the translation filer got broke in the transfer to USA.

Ideally, everyone should speak English for communications' sake. Unfortunately, there is no practical method of enforcing this. Secondly, and this is going to sound backwards, but being predominately USA-based other languages are often seen as softer, including swear words. I can think of a few in French as well but will not post them.

Outspark strives to make the game as family-friendly for everyone as possible but some things still manage to slip by from time to time. All I can say is if you see something which you think needs to be reported, report it. The worst Outspark can do is say they don’t see a violation. :)

[Miazma]

I'm looking around the forums, bored at work as usual, and it seems like every thread I find has some sort of disrespectful comment attached to it. Excuse my rant, but I feel like these things need to be put forth:

I myself have been around for a while, not as long as some, a lot more than others...and I've found that no server is better than another. Each server has a lot of brilliant players and a few bad apples who give them a bad reputation.
I've also found that no class is particularly better than another. Sure, some have more bugs and issues than another that need to be fixed, but each has its advantage and all of them have their downfalls. It is each individuals right to post regarding this subject, to say what they would like to see with their class and what needs to be fixed but to blame those issues on another class is just silly.

The idea of this game was for it to be a party game, for you to get to know the community and to work together. But there's so much emphasis on 'I know how to play your character better than you do' that at some points its just not fun anymore. I will note that in a KQ it is important for party members to play the roles that they were originially intended to play. But outside of that area, your character is your character, and no one should be telling you what you can and cannot do with your character build.
I find that I cannot walk through Elderine without hearing the words "noob" and "stfu" at least 5 times. If you have an issue with another player, avoid them, if they're violating the ToS take a screenie and report them, or keep your arguement in PM. When you argue over shout it brings down the entire community, and you are almost guaranteed to get about five more people taking part in what is probably a silly arguement.

I know there are great people in this gaming community, they are the main reason I stay. Maybe people are getting to comfortable with each other but people are starting to cross lines and boundaries in the things that they say to one another. If you chose to read this, thank you, if you choose to react to it, I hope its positive. I've seen several threads that started out with good intent end up getting flamed or disrespectful simply because they're 'tired of hearing it.' Well I'm sorry, if you are tired of hearing this stuff, don't continue to read my post and move to something else.
I know I'm going to get a few responses of "thats not me, and thats not the people I pt with"...thats wonderful, thank you for being polite and corteous, but this is for those who are not.
I want those people to realize that they should be respectful not only because hurtful, derogatory, offensive, or racist comments are against the ToS but simply because they are talking to real people with real back grounds that they know nothing about. And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another.

I would love to hear your comments, or suggestions on how we can improve the gaming community here. Please do not flame this thread, I'm not targeting anyone in particular..just making an observation.

I have enjoyed participating in this thread, but I really dont want to see it turn into a racist thread and be closed. The OP brings up many good points and focusing on just the one issue wont get the result the OP was looking for. So I have reposted the original thread in the hope that we can bet back on track.

Peace all <3

[Gravvi]

LOL thats why i moved to whispers and thanks for reposting it :). I didn't see it turning into a racist thread but lately that is something that is happening alot in the economy.

[Lythari]

Well, I am many things, including a philosopher...so here is my philosophical opinion:

The 'if everyone does their part' approach won't work because there are always going to be people who don't want to fix it. There will always be a group of people (unfortunately, large enough to have an impact) who are happy with the status quo and do not want the situation addressed. Unfortunately, there isn't anything to be done about it because they are granted freedom of expression under the First Constitutional Amendment. That's really why I say that will not solve the problem. Those people have just as much right to make racial slurs as you do to protest it. Sadly, that's the truth of the matter.

However, here is my solution: exposure. One reason why racism (among other social evils) is such an issue is because it's taboo. It's listed under the 'Don'ts' column in the social etiquette handbook. Basically, everyone thinks or knows it's bad. Because of that, we tend to demonize it: like drugs, fire arms, and so on. We have a social phobia of drug users. Why? Because apparently, taking one hit off of a crack pipe instantly turns you into a serial killing, child molesting, raping threat to society who's untamed malice presses them uncontrollably to perform unspeakable acts and prey upon society. That's the general belief, anyway; despite what one class over Psychopharmacology has to say about this.

Same thing with racism: people see it as bad, without understanding why. But those who do understand it see it for what it is and can better deal with it. And the only real way to understand something is to get exposure to it. It's not commonplace for people to hurl racial slurs in society; so when it happens, the world gasps in shock and horror. But if you are exposed to it, you will eventually reach a level of tolerance and understanding; and it will no longer bother you. The problem doesn't necessarily go away, but it doesn't affect anyone either.

For example (and this is not a sob story, just a personal example to show what I mean). My grandparents. They have problems with just about anyone who isn't 'full blooded American' (whatever that means). They really do not like my mother at all, because she is full blooded Irish; and have not been accepting of me at all until recently because I am half. They never really made any attempts to hide their distaste with the situation; and for a long time, it bothered me. I never really understood why they were so close to my cousins, yet never really wanted to be close to me. But after living with that (and also racist rants and tirades when I did visit them) for about the first 12 or so years of my life, I reached the point where it just didn't affect me. I became desensitized to it. Their rants, their distaste for my mother, their distancing from me...it just stopped bothering me. They didn't change. I did; and it was only through living with it for a while that I learned it wasn't worth worrying about. Now, you can call me all matter of ugly things and I won't even raise an eyebrow at it. You can say what you want about my heritage, and I won't even care. It's not a lack of appreciation for it or myself (pride is a very dangerous thing, so don't be prideful). It's just that I see these things for what they are and move on.

Again, this is not a sympathy trip, a sob story, or a means of garnering attention. I posted this so that people don't tell me "you don't know what it's like!" or "how do you know how it feels?". That chapter in my life is long past, and I really don't care to give it any more attention that I already have.

Anyway, expose yourself to this behavior so that it isn't such a shock when it happens. When you gain exposure to situations like this, it better educates you on how to deal with it when it reoccurs. So many people try to shelter themselves or their loved ones from it, but that only makes them more vulnerable to it. After all, the kid who's parents 'protected' from guns by keeping them away is the one who will accidentally shoot themselves with one should they find one. Why? Because they don't know how to act around one. They haven't been taught which end the bullet comes out of and what bullets do when they come out. So don't shelter your kids from the world's evils! Let them get some exposure to them so they can better understand how to deal with the situation when it comes up. Don't treat these things like four letter words. Don't avoid the issue. People will encounter things like this; better they understand it and be able to move on than be hurt and upset by it. Get them exposed, and get them educated.

Well, that's my rant for now.

[Gravvi]

Well, I am many things, including a philosopher...so here is my philosophical opinion:

The 'if everyone does their part' approach won't work because there are always going to be people who don't want to fix it. There will always be a group of people (unfortunately, large enough to have an impact) who are happy with the status quo and do not want the situation addressed. Unfortunately, there isn't anything to be done about it because they are granted freedom of expression under the First Constitutional Amendment. That's really why I say that will not solve the problem. Those people have just as much right to make racial slurs as you do to protest it. Sadly, that's the truth of the matter.

However, here is my solution: exposure. One reason why racism (among other social evils) is such an issue is because it's taboo. It's listed under the 'Don'ts' column in the social etiquette handbook. Basically, everyone thinks or knows it's bad. Because of that, we tend to demonize it: like drugs, fire arms, and so on. We have a social phobia of drug users. Why? Because apparently, taking one hit off of a crack pipe instantly turns you into a serial killing, child molesting, raping threat to society who's untamed malice presses them uncontrollably to perform unspeakable acts and prey upon society. That's the general belief, anyway; despite what one class over Psychopharmacology has to say about this.

Same thing with racism: people see it as bad, without understanding why. But those who do understand it see it for what it is and can better deal with it. And the only real way to understand something is to get exposure to it. It's not commonplace for people to hurl racial slurs in society; so when it happens, the world gasps in shock and horror. But if you are exposed to it, you will eventually reach a level of tolerance and understanding; and it will no longer bother you. The problem doesn't necessarily go away, but it doesn't affect anyone either.

For example (and this is not a sob story, just a personal example to show what I mean). My grandparents. They have problems with just about anyone who isn't 'full blooded American' (whatever that means). They really do not like my mother at all, because she is full blooded Irish; and have not been accepting of me at all until recently because I am half. They never really made any attempts to hide their distaste with the situation; and for a long time, it bothered me. I never really understood why they were so close to my cousins, yet never really wanted to be close to me. But after living with that (and also racist rants and tirades when I did visit them) for about the first 12 or so years of my life, I reached the point where it just didn't affect me. I became desensitized to it. Their rants, their distaste for my mother, their distancing from me...it just stopped bothering me. They didn't change. I did; and it was only through living with it for a while that I learned it wasn't worth worrying about. Now, you can call me all matter of ugly things and I won't even raise an eyebrow at it. You can say what you want about my heritage, and I won't even care. It's not a lack of appreciation for it or myself (pride is a very dangerous thing, so don't be prideful). It's just that I see these things for what they are and move on.

Again, this is not a sympathy trip, a sob story, or a means of garnering attention. I posted this so that people don't tell me "you don't know what it's like!" or "how do you know how it feels?". That chapter in my life is long past, and I really don't care to give it any more attention that I already have.

Anyway, expose yourself to this behavior so that it isn't such a shock when it happens. When you gain exposure to situations like this, it better educates you on how to deal with it when it reoccurs. So many people try to shelter themselves or their loved ones from it, but that only makes them more vulnerable to it. After all, the kid who's parents 'protected' from guns by keeping them away is the one who will accidentally shoot themselves with one should they find one. Why? Because they don't know how to act around one. They haven't been taught which end the bullet comes out of and what bullets do when they come out. So don't shelter your kids from the world's evils! Let them get some exposure to them so they can better understand how to deal with the situation when it comes up. Don't treat these things like four letter words. Don't avoid the issue. People will encounter things like this; better they understand it and be able to move on than be hurt and upset by it. Get them exposed, and get them educated.

Well, that's my rant for now.

What you say does have a point. But in this game It is against to do actions that break any US laws. Well It is against the law to make racial slurs because it is a form of harassment. So in order to expose everyone to it we would all have to break the law and harass others.

The reason people take racial slurs too seriously is because people take their race too seriously. When technically they are no better than anyone else. Because some people thinking they are higher on the food chain than others causes drama. Now getting used to Racist comments isn't the solution. Thats where I disagree with you. Getting used to the racial discrimination doesn't make it within the ToS or within the law.

[failedclown36]

post deleted by user

[KenshinGi]

I want those people to realize that they should be respectful not only because hurtful, derogatory, offensive, or racist comments are against the ToS but simply because they are talking to real people with real back grounds that they know nothing about. And a comment that seems like nothing to one person can be incredibly hurtful to another

This is both an Ideal to work with however sadly enough it is also the root of the problem. While I agree that at all times certain levels of decorum and politeness should be maintained, the sad fact is people get angry, they get sad, they get dramatic, and worst of all when they do they will feel the need to voice it. Not much can really be done about people being rude, as it's not really against any rules, best to do is block said person and remember that not all people are so easily affronted and not all people are so short tempered as to get angry in a game. Don't lose faith in people merely based on the actions of a few.

[Lythari]

What you say does have a point. But in this game It is against to do actions that break any US laws. Well It is against the law to make racial slurs because it is a form of harassment. So in order to expose everyone to it we would all have to break the law and harass others.

The reason people take racial slurs too seriously is because people take their race too seriously. When technically they are no better than anyone else. Because some people thinking they are higher on the food chain than others causes drama. Now getting used to Racist comments isn't the solution. Thats where I disagree with you. Getting used to the racial discrimination doesn't make it within the ToS or within the law.

There is a difference between racism and discrimination; the former being a belief system whilst the latter being the actual infringement on the rights of others. Discrimination is illegal, while racism is not. The next time someone makes a racial slur, get it on tape and turn it in to your local police department and see what they do about it. They can't do anything about it unless it qualifies as a hate crime. Racial slurs (unless consistently repeated over a period of time from the same person to the same person) do not constitute such.

It's great having the CSR's armed with ban hammers lurking in every shadow here in Fiesta. But we do not live in Fiesta 100% of the time, and there is little CSR Cretz, CSR Joker, Admin SKING, or GM Dakkon can do about racism in the real world. Follow the rules here and report people when in Fiesta Land. However, that doesn't do much when you leave Fiesta Land. Racism is in the real world too, and I was providing a real world solution.

There is more than one way to expose it to everyone that does not involve breaking laws. As previously stated, it's only a legal violation if it's a hate crime or discrimination. Simply hurling insults is exercising your first amendment. Not a sterling example, mind you, but Freedom of Expression is still Freedom of Expression whether you are praising or insulting. Have you been arrested by the Thought Police lately for saying something insulting about the government?

Now that doesn't mean go out and start vomiting racial hatred everywhere for teh good of mankind, but there are ways of introducing such actions in a controlled situation and environment.

[Gravvi]

There is a difference between racism and discrimination; the former being a belief system whilst the latter being the actual infringement on the rights of others. Discrimination is illegal, while racism is not. The next time someone makes a racial slur, get it on tape and turn it in to your local police department and see what they do about it. They can't do anything about it unless it qualifies as a hate crime. Racial slurs (unless consistently repeated over a period of time from the same person to the same person) do not constitute such.

It's great having the CSR's armed with ban hammers lurking in every shadow here in Fiesta. But we do not live in Fiesta 100% of the time, and there is little CSR Cretz, CSR Joker, Admin SKING, or GM Dakkon can do about racism in the real world. Follow the rules here and report people when in Fiesta Land. However, that doesn't do much when you leave Fiesta Land. Racism is in the real world too, and I was providing a real world solution.

There is more than one way to expose it to everyone that does not involve breaking laws. As previously stated, it's only a legal violation if it's a hate crime or discrimination. Simply hurling insults is exercising your first amendment. Not a sterling example, mind you, but Freedom of Expression is still Freedom of Expression whether you are praising or insulting. Have you been arrested by the Thought Police lately for saying something insulting about the government?

Now that doesn't mean go out and start vomiting racial hatred everywhere for teh good of mankind, but there are ways of introducing such actions in a controlled situation and environment.

Racism is discrimination against a race. Racial slurs are comments that pertain to a race based on past times.

Now if freedom of expression and racial slurs weren't against the law, here is my question(i still don't understand the problem)

So it was in court where a non-black person called this black person,who was on trial, the N word. Because of that racial slur it caused the person on trial to be released with no penalty for something that was against the law. So how can racial slurs be ok? I am just getting really confused. It could be the way my school taught this stuff. (I had really stupid teachers lol)

[Miazma]

K this thread has lost me. As per usual people are only intent on the *racism* aspect.

Yet racism is something I see rarely in the game.

Innocent stupid hurtful words that can be taken *OUT OF CONTEXT* and classed as *racism* are plenty.

As an Australian I find I often have to edit what I say in game, because words and sayings that are mere slang here, could easily be taken out of the context I mean them and be considered racist.

I am an Aussie and proud of it, so if you want to walk up to me and call me a *silly Aussie broad* GO FOR IT. You want to bad mouth Australia, again I say go for it. Am I going to have an attitude attack cos you called me an Aussie? not likely cos guess what, I am one so how does it become hurtful?

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS has gone totally balistic and has got to such a point that free speech is fast becoming a very costly commodity.

[Gravvi]

Well i am on the racist aspect lately because in the past couple of months there have been like 6 posts complaining about it. So its around. I never actually see it in text but i am just tired of the complaints so i am trying to at least solve that first IG. I already sent the GM's ways to stop training and KS"ing. My next task is to get the economies money back down(no clue how). But i find that in every MMO there are people who cause trouble and think they are above all thinking they can't get in trouble.

*edit* how can you tell if someone is aussie IG? What would be an insult to an aussie? I know nothing of that culture.

[Lythari]

Racism is discrimination against a race. Racial slurs are comments that pertain to a race based on past times.

Now if freedom of expression and racial slurs weren't against the law, here is my question(i still don't understand the problem)

So it was in court where a non-black person called this black person,who was on trial, the N word. Because of that racial slur it caused the person on trial to be released with no penalty for something that was against the law. So how can racial slurs be ok? I am just getting really confused. It could be the way my school taught this stuff. (I had really stupid teachers lol)

No. Racism is a prejudice. A prejudice is a personal opinion or belief system. Discrimination is an actual action taken against that person. Racism is not illegal. When you take action, then it's illegal. You can't be legally punished for not liking another race (racism). You can be punished for performing hate crimes against that race, or discriminating against them. Being arrested for racism would be like getting arrested for being a conservative.

Well, I don't fully understand the situation, so I cannot comment on this instance...but there could be a variety of things that took place or came into play that were not publicized. If he was part of the jury, that could be a reason. Or perhaps the charges against him were dropped, and that took place within a recent period of time. Also, not every aspect of the legal system or process is shown to the general public. There could have been reasons that were unannounced and the media decided that it was as good a reason as any. (The media does that a lot). Or if you heard it from someone, they may either be exaggerating, making it up, or didn't fully understand what was taking place.

I'm not saying it's okay. What I'm saying is you cannot be arrested and convicted for it. If using racial slurs or hate speech was illegal, then almost all of the cast of 'Crash' would have been arrested for making that movie. Why? Because it would be a federal offense for using some of the language that they did. However, they were not. You cannot be arrested for making a racial comment. That doesn't mean it's okay. It just means that it is not a criminal/civil offense. Part of the first amendment is that you cannot be arrested for what you say. What you say can be used to incriminate you, but it cannot be the charge pressed against you in the United States legal system.

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS has gone totally balistic and has got to such a point that free speech is fast becoming a very costly commodity.I do not know about other places, but freedom of expression cannot be touched by any government entity. Sure, someone can get offended by what you say and sue you for it...but that does not make it a federal or state offense. It just means that you are being sued for making a statement that someone else didn't like. Most cases of people getting in trouble for racial statements are celebrities. Because they are celebrities, the situation is often blown out of proportion. Regardless of the publicity, none of them have faced criminal charges for these statements under state or federal jurisdiction.

[Gravvi]

No. Racism is a prejudice. A prejudice is a personal opinion or belief system. Discrimination is an actual action taken against that person. Racism is not illegal. When you take action, then it's illegal. You can't be legally punished for not liking another race (racism). You can be punished for performing hate crimes against that race, or discriminating against them. Being arrested for racism would be like getting arrested for being a conservative.

Well, I don't fully understand the situation, so I cannot comment on this instance...but there could be a variety of things that took place or came into play that were not publicized. If he was part of the jury, that could be a reason. Or perhaps the charges against him were dropped, and that took place within a recent period of time. Also, not every aspect of the legal system or process is shown to the general public. There could have been reasons that were unannounced and the media decided that it was as good a reason as any. (The media does that a lot). Or if you heard it from someone, they may either be exaggerating, making it up, or didn't fully understand what was taking place.

I'm not saying it's okay. What I'm saying is you cannot be arrested and convicted for it. If using racial slurs or hate speech was illegal, then almost all of the cast of 'Crash' would have been arrested for making that movie. Why? Because it would be a federal offense for using some of the language that they did. However, they were not. You cannot be arrested for making a racial comment. That doesn't mean it's okay. It just means that it is not a criminal/civil offense. Part of the first amendment is that you cannot be arrested for what you say. What you say can be used to incriminate you, but it cannot be the charge pressed against you in the United States legal system.

I do not know about other places, but freedom of expression cannot be touched by any government entity. Sure, someone can get offended by what you say and sue you for it...but that does not make it a federal or state offense. It just means that you are being sued for making a statement that someone else didn't like. Most cases of people getting in trouble for racial statements are celebrities. Because they are celebrities, the situation is often blown out of proportion. Regardless of the publicity, none of them have faced criminal charges for these statements under state or federal jurisdiction.

Where were you during my civics test. I actually understand it now :). Thanks. And that whole instance about a guy being released due to the comment was on TV, in the news, in the paper. It was about 1/2 - 1 year ago.

[Miazma]

K final post on this thread. Lythari I want to say in my opinion your continued posts about *racism* in the real world ARE correct in the real world. HOWEVER... In the Fiesta world we agree to their rules when we agree to the TOS on creating our account.

Welcome to Outspark! By registering and creating an account with Outspark, Inc. (“Outspark”) you are agreeing to comply with these Terms of Service (the “Terms”). The Terms also include the Outspark Privacy Policy, as well as guidelines or rules set forth on the Outspark website (the “Outspark Site”), currently located at www.outspark.com, or within an Outspark game (the “Outspark Game”, together with Outspark Site the “Outspark Service”). If you do not agree with these Terms, do not create an account and do not continue to use the Outspark Service.

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.

This is the rule we agreed to when we joined the Outspark Community and until Outspark change it, it is the rule we are to abide by.

My personal opinion is though your posts are very well thought out and you are obviously a very educated person your posts fuel the *racism* threads. I say this because you continually forget that we are NOT dealing with real world laws but the Outspark TOS.

[Gravvi]

K final post on this thread. Lythari I want to say in my opinion your continued posts about *racism* in the real world ARE correct in the real world. HOWEVER... In the Fiesta world we agree to their rules when we agree to the TOS on creating our account.

Welcome to Outspark! By registering and creating an account with Outspark, Inc. (“Outspark”) you are agreeing to comply with these Terms of Service (the “Terms”). The Terms also include the Outspark Privacy Policy, as well as guidelines or rules set forth on the Outspark website (the “Outspark Site”), currently located at www.outspark.com, or within an Outspark game (the “Outspark Game”, together with Outspark Site the “Outspark Service”). If you do not agree with these Terms, do not create an account and do not continue to use the Outspark Service.

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.

This is the rule we agreed to when we joined the Outspark Community and until Outspark change it, it is the rule we are to abide by.

My personal opinion is though your posts are very well thought out and you are obviously a very educated person your posts fuel the *racism* threads. I say this because you continually forget that we are NOT dealing with real world laws but the Outspark TOS.

O.O well in the ToS we agreed to follow real world laws too.

[Lythari]

K final post on this thread. Lythari I want to say in my opinion your continued posts about *racism* in the real world ARE correct in the real world. HOWEVER... In the Fiesta world we agree to their rules when we agree to the TOS on creating our account.

Welcome to Outspark! By registering and creating an account with Outspark, Inc. (“Outspark”) you are agreeing to comply with these Terms of Service (the “Terms”). The Terms also include the Outspark Privacy Policy, as well as guidelines or rules set forth on the Outspark website (the “Outspark Site”), currently located at www.outspark.com (http://www.outspark.com), or within an Outspark game (the “Outspark Game”, together with Outspark Site the “Outspark Service”). If you do not agree with these Terms, do not create an account and do not continue to use the Outspark Service.

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.

This is the rule we agreed to when we joined the Outspark Community and until Outspark change it, it is the rule we are to abide by.

My personal opinion is though your posts are very well thought out and you are obviously a very educated person your posts fuel the *racism* threads. I say this because you continually forget that we are NOT dealing with real world laws but the Outspark TOS.

I have said specifically that you should adhere to the rules laid out in the ToS. Nowhere have I said to ignore them when playing Fiesta or socializing on these forums. I was addressing racism in real life, because that is where it starts. I have forgotten nothing.

It's great having the CSR's armed with ban hammers lurking in every shadow here in Fiesta. But we do not live in Fiesta 100% of the time, and there is little CSR Cretz, CSR Joker, Admin SKING, or GM Dakkon can do about racism in the real world. Follow the rules here and report people when in Fiesta Land. However, that doesn't do much when you leave Fiesta Land. Racism is in the real world too, and I was providing a real world solution.

Nowhere did I say disregard the ToS to adopt real world laws. Nowhere do I fuel racist posts. Nowhere do I endorse them. Graavi asked me about racism in society, and I answered that question to the best of my knowledge. If he had asked about racism in Outspark, I would have answered accordingly. However, telling him about Outspark's rules when he is talking about a real world issue would be neither relevant nor helpful.

Please explain how I fuel racist posting, and I will either explain myself or correct it.

[AlphaCentari]

O.O well in the ToS we agreed to follow real world laws too.

This is Fiesta.

Remember this quote? "WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS DO."

When in Fiesta do as the Fiestans.

[Sheketo]

Thanks for the post Celtic. I really love your point ^^. I still remember the first time i did slime kq. I loved how everyone worked together, fought together (and some times died together xD) it was a such an adventure! :D When i first played Fiesta my first impression was, "Wow, Fiesta really really really encourages people to work together to succeed!"

But yes, Fiesta is a lovely game. Everyone has their part in the game which is really great! The Mages and Archers to AoE and pull, the Warriors to tank, the Clerics to heal!

Sometimes there people in Fiesta that can ruin the game for others such as flamers, haters and racists. For example in pvp, if a noob is getting spawn-killed for no reason, he will most likely do the same thing to another player in the future.

One time i was murdered by Trumphies in AeW, and my computer is verrry slow, and I have little patience. It was not the first time i died either, and it would mean 5minutes wasted rebooting the comp, and 5 more minutes getting to AeW from Uruga xD. Not to mention the numerous comp crashes sure to follow after being in AeW for an hour.

But when i died a random cleric saw me, rezzed me, and buffed me! It really made my day :) (cheesy who cares Dx)

Of course, the opposite has also happened. He walked over my dead body and i was po'ed half the day xD (dramatic, who cares)

But ya, you can start with a Random Act of Kindness, and save someone's day. Even in real life ;)

[Gravvi]

This is Fiesta.

Remember this quote? "WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS DO."

When in Fiesta do as the Fiestans.

WEll i am not going to do as the Fiestans because i don't like the way 75% of them act. Now that quote doesn't apply here since a fiesta law states to follow RL laws.

[Lythari]

WEll i am not going to do as the Fiestans because i don't like the way 75% of them act. Now that quote doesn't apply here since a fiesta law states to follow RL laws.

Just remember that there are things Outspark does and does not allow regardless of real world laws. That's what they are saying.

[AlphaCentari]

Just remember that there are things Outspark does and does not allow regardless of real world laws. That's what they are saying.

___EXACTLY___


Come on people, move ON. Can't we just talk about fiesta instead of having "discussions" about what is allowable in real life? The TOS comes before anything in real life so when playing fiesta follow the TOS.

[irroc29]

Any ToS is not above the law, period. First of all..

If the ToS says you kill your mom, you can kill your mom, but that doesn't mean you won't be punish in the /real/ world.

(edited): I edited this because if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all. :)

And kalone, you're supposed to love me.. T___T;

[IcarusFlewTooHigh]

If the ToS says you kill your mom, you can kill your mom, but that doesn't mean you won't be punish in the /real/ world.

I hate /real. I much prefer /fant. .___.

[kalone]

And kalone, you're supposed to love me.. T___T;

Woah, woah. It was one night, please don't take this personally.

[Gravvi]

O.O wait what did i miss? And thanks irroc29 for posting that because i was going to say it but probably in a worse way.

[AlphaCentari]

Any ToS is not above the law, period. First of all..

If the ToS says you kill your mom, you can kill your mom, but that doesn't mean you won't be punish in the /real/ world.

(edited): I edited this because if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all. :)

And kalone, you're supposed to love me.. T___T;

The TOS is for Fiesta, Fiesta is NOT real life ergo..........things that are perfectly legal in Fiesta is NOT legal in real life, like murder. Please remember that this is a game and that it is just a game. This is a place to have FUN not to argue about things that are not allowable in real life.

And anyway while playing fiesta and you and your mom are in opposing guilds in a guild war, you're not going to kill your mom!?!

[kalone]

The TOS is for Fiesta, Fiesta is NOT real life ergo..........things that are perfectly legal in Fiesta is NOT legal in real life, like murder. Please remember that this is a game and that it is just a game. This is a place to have FUN not to argue about things that are not allowable in real life.

And anyway while playing fiesta and you and your mom are in opposing guilds in a guild war, you're not going to kill your mom!?!

That's what she said?

[TheCentrix]

Any ToS is not above the law, period. First of all..

If the ToS says you kill your mom, you can kill your mom, but that doesn't mean you won't be punish in the /real/ world.

(edited): I edited this because if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all. :)

And kalone, you're supposed to love me.. T___T;

Law is always above TOS. though outspark wont punish u for killing ur mom if they say so in their TOS :P

[Serric]

OK, things seem to have gotten off track here. Please allow me to curtail this somewhat.

• racism in the game: Not allowed. Don’t do it. If you see someone being racist in action or speech, report them. If you are found guilty of being racist you face permaban. There are no appeals.

• TOS vs real world laws: The TOS will never violate any real world laws, but it is the law for this game. By creating an account with Outspark you are agreeing to the TOS in all its glory. If you violate the TOS you are subject to punishment including, but not limited to full account termination. You are not required to read the TOS but you ARE required to follow it. For everyone’s edification I have posted a link to the TOS [HERE] (http://www.outspark.com/legal) and encourage you all to read it.

• Bad behavior, poor attitude and just being a general snot is not necessarily a TOS vio and yes, bad players will be bad players. They are everywhere and we just have to deal with them. The easiest and best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Do not engage into a verbal argument with them and if you feel they are indeed in violation of the TOS then report them appropriately. This stands for both the games and the forums.


That pretty much covers it. Let’s bring the topic back on track now, shall we?

[Lythari]

My apologies, CL Serric. I guess I side tracked us and threw the thread into a tailspin by discussing the real world on a gaming forum.