[Mikencloud]

Thousands of dollars...lmao. Not going to flamebait. Cool story, bro. But i doubt this thread will go far enough to reach outsparks ears.

[caliab]

Originally Posted by french_blandian

The point of noting that is merely to show that I'm not somebody who's only been playing for a couple months, rather I've been around long enough to know what the game has been through.

In other words, I have the experience through time to validate my concerns.

Oh trust me I understand. It's just a peeve because so many people use it as a way of saying "i know how this game is supposed to be more than anyone else" when in most cases it doesn't mean much. I didn't mean to imply you were doing it. Was just making a general statement that I hear it and cringe. lol.

Originally Posted by Mikencloud

Thousands of dollars...lmao. Not going to flamebait. Cool story, bro. But i doubt this thread will go far enough to reach outsparks ears.

you'd be surprised. you'd reeeeally really be surprised.

[french_blandian]

Originally Posted by Mikencloud

Thousands of dollars...lmao. Not going to flamebait. Cool story, bro. But i doubt this thread will go far enough to reach outsparks ears.

Yes, if you read I say quite clearly that I got a LOT of people to play. My wife and I have spent over $1000 between each other in the last 18 months, not to mention all of my guildies from a decade back (other games) who spent a LOT of money between themselves getting fully +9 for themselves, a couple had wives AND kids, and some new guildies were brought in from their work by everyone else.

So yes, I am responsible for bringing thousands of dollars to Outspark.

And if you're "not going to flamebait," then don't write a post calling my integrity into question and then say you're "not going to flamebait." Just don't post at all.

[cotycrg]

I know exactly what you are talking about. When I first joined, the games were just plain amazing. ProPow was my first CBT ever, and I was happy as could be. (I eventually got tired of Fiesta, because of the many glitches that were never fixed over long periods of time.) I loved ProPow, until the GM's stopped listening to the players. They had about a 6+ month period where there weren't even any updates. ProPow was probably the best game on Outspark at the time. Blackshot came next, it was fun, still no listening to the players, then the legal issues came.(By the way, Outspark, you should seriously consider dropping that game already, re-create your own MMOFPS already and move on.) Dance Groove is now here, and I played that. It seems like they aren't going to listen to players here either. Murdock even said himself that game companies do not take game suggestions from the playerbase.

Due to all this, one day I'm going to start a gaming company. My company will listen to the players and show up all these other big companies by proving that actually listening to the players, taking suggestions and such, will REALLY earn the money. Bug found, we will actually take care of it at that moment.

That's all.
*walks off*
(lol)

[GM_Nekopon]

Let me move this to general discussions first then reply.
Edit: I decided to move this to Fiesta's general discussions as this is the best "general discussions" there is for responses since the Outspark category does not have one.

[GM_Nekopon]

Please read the bold bits in the quote for my response:

Originally Posted by french_blandian

It's a shame about the other getting closed, but that's typical of game companies, they don't allow free speech in their forums. Truth is painful, it forces those in charge to acknowledge where they have flawed.

Outspark needs to decide, do they want to be a game that hosts ad space for other real MMO's, or do they actually want to be a powerhouse in the MMO field? Right now, they're beginning to look more like an outhouse.

When I first started playing I was telling everybody I knew to play Fiesta. I loved the support, the events, the GM's, the constant communication, so many things that made Outspark very happy in my little feelers. I got many MANY people to join, we partied, grinded (ground?), got our spouses to play, etc. Now, these many, many months later, I am 1 of 3 that has stayed, and all have stopped for the same reason; we're sick of Outspark not caring about us anymore.

I was recently "warned" through an email about something that never even happened, and when I replied explaining what was said, the reply came back, nose up in the air, "we've investigated this," etc., etc. Well, since I can't prove something I didn't know I was being setup for, I got "in trouble" for absolutely nothing. Great customer service, fantastic way of treating a paying customer who has brought you literally THOUSANDS of dollars.

But I let it go, mistakes happen, but there is still all the times when people call me any number of various racial slurs who I report WITH SCREENSHOTS and never get banned. This is disgusting on behalf of Outspark, that your game censors words like Jew, Jesus, ****, Hitler, even the word crap, and yet you let foul mouthed racist jerks run around saying ignorant, hateful stuff like that?

Have you sent a ticket for this? If you have, CSR will ban those players. Probably not permanent ban for the first offense but if they do this again, the punishment will be harsher. This is probably why you saw these players again?

That's absolutely ridiculous, Outspark, and unsettling.

The game has become fraught with bugs and glitches to the point that every week I am surprised if you bother to fix one, and still expect each patch to bring another one.

Actually, if you look at my stickied glitches and bugs list here, you'd see that this is updated every week with several different categories. This includes reported, known, fixing, and completed bug fixes. Not to mention we have patch notes every week before our Tuesday maintenance to tell you what we'll have fixed for that patch.

They don't care, and all they want is money. The running bug caused by AoE's ... that has never been fixed, and I've been here since the start of open beta. How hard is it to tell your character to NOT run without a key being pressed? It's not.

I am not here for money, in fact. There are CLs not here for money, I'm an intern myself. What to choose to fix, how hard to fix it, how long it'll take depends on Onson. We can report it have it on a list like the one I gave but ultimately the power is their ahdsn. We can push and ask, that's all.

Has anyone else also noticed that every single bug and glitch in the game has been recycled? Not only just used again, but even in the same order as before.

Put this together, and here's what I see: maintenance who wants to ensure they keep their job, because if they truly fix the problems then the need for them declines. They have the script saved on a flash drive with a date, and they just pop back in old "bugs" when they need to fill their schedule a bit.

Additionally, some of the problems people have complained about over the many months have been wholly ignored by management or customer service, which is a big no-no in my book. The worse part however is that a handful of times when the replies have come, they've been lies, and I don't mean I assume they're lying because I'm angry, I mean I know what computers and game engines are *not* capable of doing, and when they tell the players they can't do something because of (insert excuse here) it's more often because it's easier to sound like you're trying to help than to say you won't.

Is it possible to get an example for this one? I'd be happy to help you on it.

The low number of employees is evidence of this; when you've got that few amount of employees, AND you're still trying to bring out new games, everyone is stretched thin, and to the people in charge, time is money, and as long as the money pours into the shops, they don't care about the gameplay, so long as they can push the new games and meet deadlines.

Actually, we've already noticed this before. There's an announcement thread on looking for more GMs located here. We care about the gameplay so we're looking for more GMs to handle different parts of the game. Ensuring that none of the good aspects of game management will get lost.

I understand they're a business, a business is in the business of making money, regardless of products. But a little history and common sense tells us that they'd be more successful making quality products that have limited errors, great report with it's customers, and a strong link to it's players (which without the game wouldn't exist...) instead of a lot of games that are fringing on being incomplete forever or have very little appeal to the majority of MMO players (Blackshot, Dance) or are beginning to digress in support so badly that people like me are writing bad reviews about them.

So Outspark, maybe you should stop stretching yourself out over so many titles that you can't keep up with what you have already produced.

There's no point in having multiple games available when people hear your name and cringe.

Thank you for your feedback. There's a lot of things where I can understand your frustration. If you have anything else you need to express, please do so and I'll try my best to assist you on it.

[salman.pisces]

Originally Posted by GM_Nekopon

Please read the boldd bits in the quote for my response:



Thank you for your feedback. There's a lot of things where I can understand your frustration. If you have anything else you need to express, please do so and I'll try my best to assist you on it.

that felt....cool =)

[Celtic_Princess]

The 9th of this month will mark 2 years here for me. In that time I've seen a lot of changes, both good and bad, and I've seen this community grow and expand at a rapid pace.

The opening post in this thread is very well written and well thought out. However I find that first line rather offensive. There are a number of threads that I have taken part in that directly criticized Outspark that remained open. Despite popular belief we are not here to silence you...

I was taught during my first semester as a business major that the primary goal of any business is to make profit. It is...people open businesses to make money. However, I was also taught that the best way to make a profit is to provide a product that customers want, and to provide excellent customer service. In other words, customer feedback is essential and customer retention is a primary goal. So, I reiterate: We welcome feedback, both positive and negative.

In regards to the rest of your post, I can understand (as a player) where you are coming from. There are times when I wonder how people have not been banned yet ( I also often wonder what type of environment they were raised in...) , but I also realize that its my responsibility to report it if I have a problem with it. Often, first time offenses when it come to language aren't banned. We all have bad days, we all slip up. But if those users are constantly exhibiting that type of behavior, if they keep showing up on Outsparks radar....they will go.

But if they are not reported, they'll stick around.

Neko has already covered the bug issue rather well, if you have any other comments in regards to how bugs are fixed...I'd be happy to address them.

They don't care, and all they want is money

Actually, I and the rest of the CL team, are here specifically because we do care. We are volunteers (read: Unpaid) who were chosen by Outspark because of our knowledge of the games and our willingness to help. We do this job because it is a way for us to give back to a community that we care about. If you do not think a thread is getting the attention it deserves, if you have a question, if there is anything that we can help you with...we will do our best to do so.

The low number of employees is evidence of this; when you've got that few amount of employees, AND you're still trying to bring out new games, everyone is stretched thin

Outspark is currently home to about 60 employees, they used to have less than 50. It would be nice if they hired more...

That said, more money and meeting deadlines isn't the only motivation for adding new titles. Better marketing ability is up there too. Each of the games here appeals to a different type of gamer, making their marketing segment a little bit wider. This increases traffic to the site, and creates cross traffic between the games (read: customer loyalty...sticking to other games by the same publisher instead of wandering off to a different site).



P.S. I think its 'we grinded'...

[fa1nt6]

Originally Posted by Celtic_Princess

Despite popular belief we are not here to silence you...

This is the most modded forum I have ever been to, lol.

Originally Posted by Celtic_Princess

I was taught during my first semester as a business major that the primary goal of any business is to make profit. It is...people open businesses to make money. However, I was also taught that the best way to make a profit is to provide a product that customers want, and to provide excellent customer service. In other words, customer feedback is essential and customer retention is a primary goal.

They are not doing that. They are providing products that people need in order to compete with the buyers that want power.

His whole post/rant was about the lack of attention to the bolded part.

Originally Posted by Celtic_Princess

Actually, I and the rest of the CL team, are here specifically because we do care. We are volunteers (read: Unpaid) who were chosen by Outspark because of our knowledge of the games and our willingness to help. We do this job because it is a way for us to give back to a community that we care about. If you do not think a thread is getting the attention it deserves, if you have a question, if there is anything that we can help you with...we will do our best to do so.

The awnsers he was seeking were from actual employees I am guessing.. (I have not actually ever seen an admin post on these forums... just neko/strag/silky and the other GMs)

Originally Posted by Celtic_Princess

Outspark is currently home to about 60 employees, they used to have less than 50. It would be nice if they hired more...

9 people for each OS game is cutting it a little thin.. aha. I am guessing that they are making a massive profit, as the servers do not cost much, and I am guessing the GMs and programmers for fixing bugs are not paid that much. Almost every person in just Legel server has a 10-20$ sc suit, not including the many, MANY that have xp cards, teva, extenders, and the random few tho spend upwards of $500+ on this game. Where are the financial reports for this game? Last 2 games I played over the years had public info on this...

Originally Posted by Celtic_Princess

That said, more money and meeting deadlines isn't the only motivation for adding new titles. Better marketing ability is up there too. Each of the games here appeals to a different type of gamer, making their marketing segment a little bit wider. This increases traffic to the site, and creates cross traffic between the games (read: customer loyalty...sticking to other games by the same publisher instead of wandering off to a different site).

What deadlines? From my reading the forum these last few months, people are not to worried about new additions as much as fixing the plethora of random bugs in the game, as well as the many im guessing other OS games have..


You are right, if they only have 60 employees, they REALLY need to get s'more >_>

[Celtic_Princess]

Originally Posted by fa1nt6

This is the most modded forum I have ever been to, lol.

Surprisingly, I've seen other sites/chats that have much heavier modding than this site. To be honest, I don't think its too much to ask for community members here to be respectful of others and to watch their language. I would expect that from anyone who walked into my store, or that I met on a day to day basis. Its common courtesy.

They are not doing that. They are providing products that people need in order to compete with the buyers that want power.

His whole post/rant was about the lack of attention to the bolded part.

Care to expand a bit on the bolded part? If you read the paragraph you quoted, those are my personal business beliefs. I welcome consumer feedback, as I'm sure do many of the other GMs/CSRs.

The awnsers he was seeking were from actual employees I am guessing.. (I have not actually ever seen an admin post on these forums... just neko/strag/silky and the other GMs)

CSR Circe is also quite active, and CM Bribbo is around quite a bit as well.

9 people for each OS game is cutting it a little thin.. aha. I am guessing that they are making a massive profit, as the servers do not cost much, and I am guessing the GMs and programmers for fixing bugs are not paid that much. Almost every person in just Legel server has a 10-20$ sc suit, not including the many, MANY that have xp cards, teva, extenders, and the random few tho spend upwards of $500+ on this game. Where are the financial reports for this game? Last 2 games I played over the years had public info on this...

Outspark, Inc. is a privately held company. Therefore their financial information is not required to be reported publically. The other MMOs you've played were probably published by pubically traded companies that are required to report their financial gains and losses to stockholders. However, you can google search the Outspark company profile and find whatever information has been released.

As of right now, they have gained about $23 million in funding. These were start up loans to bring in new games and a few new staffers, the loans do have to be paid back. So, your guess that they're making a 'massive' profit is probably a bit off. Keep in mind that not only do they have to fund the initial start up of the company, provide the cost of training and paying for 60 employees, rent for the building they are in (and rent in SF...its not cheap), initial cost and upkeep costs of the servers as well as any other technology in the building including the employees computers. Then there are taxes, marketing fees, cost of office upkeep, product development, cost of running the games...etc.

There's a lot more to business than set it up and pay the employees.

What deadlines? From my reading the forum these last few months, people are not to worried about new additions as much as fixing the plethora of random bugs in the game, as well as the many im guessing other OS games have..


You are right, if they only have 60 employees, they REALLY need to get s'more >_>

I agree, they could use more employees. However, in regards to the first portion of this quote...the deadlines...it may seem like they randomly update to you and I but they don't. There are scheduled releases for items in the cash shop, in the game, there is scheduled in house testing of games they're releasing, schedules for closed beta tests and for game releases. Work has deadlines.

It would be great if they could get ahold of some fantastic new additions to their team to help focus on the issues that do need to be fixed and to expand their involvement in the community.